What ifs

What ifs,
What if your local preserved railway were given a local branch to run, how many could do it?
heres my opening scenerio for you, SWT have given up the Island line franchise, The IOWsr have been given the line from St Johns to Shanklin for £1, and a grant to operate the service and hire 2 dmu;s but they have to run a 2 hourly service, but can run a tourist service in the season, using what ever they can obtain, how would you do it?

 

not from St johns end , they wont i did not mension the st johns to the pier section,

 

As said the gauging of the IOW is a difficult one and after the last O2s went the only thing that fitted was the really old virtually obsolete Tube stock, converted to run 3rd rail, which would be to expensive to maintain a 3rd rail system, even if enough experienced people came forward.
Other than new build O2s and right size Southern Island coaches can't think of any easy answer. If only would need more than a Lottery win, unless someone wins the European Lottery, then who knows?

The most important section to many is Rhyde Pier Head to Shanklin complete why wasn't this included? A bit behind over there now re main line.

 

The only thing preventing class 150 sprinters operating Island Line is the low platform heights, Ryde tunnel was rebuilt a number of years ago. Class 150 and 158! are cleared for the tunnel.

 

Thank you gary, so in that case hire some 150 sprinters, 2 x 2 car sets and 2x single car sets, they should be going cheap , repaint them in Southern sunshire livery drop the gap in the stations , the single cars can work most services, with the 2 car units in peak times, for the tourist service, as it will not run beyond st johns, borrow 4 airbrake mk1s, i assume they will fit the loading gauge,on the st johns to sandown section and use either the ivatt, or 1 of the austerities then slowly rebuild shanklins run round loop , of course nothing would prevent a terrier and the 4 wheelers doing a ryde pier head to wooton special

 

i would hesitate to question gary's expert assertion that 150s and 158s are cleared for the Ryde Esplanade Tunnel. 150s are shorter. i would very much doubt 158s are short enough.

the 'franchise' to operate the Ryde - Shanklin line has been operated by SW trains successfully for many years, and i cannot see any logical reason why the IOWSR should wish to take over same. extending the IOWSR for through running has a lot of emotional appeal, but no economic case. however a link to Newport (as the Ryde-Newport road is very very busy at 'rush hour', and many other times), is a compelling argument for commuters to the mainland (of which i was one) together with a through train up the pier. however the considerable parking near Ryde Esplanade and Southsea gives the alternative route via car and hovercraft a considerable 'edge' over the 'old route' plus i'm reminded of the old addage that no railway ever ran a profit on passenger commuter services!

i dont think that the Ryde-Shanklin Line is a suitable candidate for Martin's suggestion!

cheers,
julian

 

For the diesel enthusiasts, are any of the cut down cab 03s or 08s still in existence that used to work on the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley line? For starters, I believe that 03019 is/was on the West Somerset Railway.

John

 

I would imagine having sufficient staff to run it could be a problem. Getting into paid staff territory.

 

Class 158 are cleared for Ryde tunnel but I have no idea about the rest of the line. The present franchise will be ending in a few years, you never know what may happen for the next one....

 

I had always understood that there was talk of a Light Rail option for the "national network" line on the IoW. However this was before the "tram train" project which has hopefully proved to the DafT that using units that are that both trains and trams actually makes them more expensive per seat than it possible with a pure train.

Steven

 

The only option i can see is this, firstly would SWT want to continue the franchise? the tube stock is becoming more expensive to maintain, spares becoming harder to get, you need to train up staff on the 38 stock, which is unlike anything else used by SWT, at some stage the tube stock will have to be replaced, given the cost of that, for the return the future can not be guarenteed. its a complete franchise including the PW, so any future heavy civil engineering will have to come out of SWT's pockets all the more reason to offload it . so the government have to decide what to do, hense my original post this could be set to any loss making branch where there is a preserved railway presence, the same could be said of Grosmont to Whitby could the NYMR run a limited service over that section, using what ever it had availible, for instance, it could then use whatever stock or engines because they would no longer have to use approoved locos and stock, anyway back to Ryde to Shanklin, i did not know that 158's had been passed for ryde tunnel, so assumed that section would be retained and operated by SWT on behalf of Wightlink to provide a way of getting to the ferries.
but if it was the case that a 150/156 etc could fit the tunnel and other limited clearence issues then it would make sence to use a dmu especially if you can use single car units out of peak , SWT recieve a subsidy to operate the service, so what if that was given to the preserved railway instead , with their use of volunteer staff, overheads could be a lot lower,what paid staff needed would be less, and not be paid the same as SWT staff, would be, whats the unemployed situation on the Island like? again local council and government could do something to make it affordable for the railway to take on suitably skilled local people

 

[QUOTE="SWT recieve a subsidy to operate the service, so what if that was given to the preserved railway instead , with their use of volunteer staff, overheads could be a lot lower,what paid staff needed would be less, and not be paid the same as SWT staff, would be, whats the unemployed situation on the Island like? again local council and government could do something to make it affordable for the railway to take on suitably skilled local people[/QUOTE]

I do not think that there is any likelihood of the Steam Railway taking on Island Line even with the subsidy. It would be a poison chalice!

The unemployment situation on the Island is the worst in the south, to much reliance on seasonal work, coupled with low wages.

 

I'm sure that Gary is right. The Steam Railway is a complex business itself, in reality if you take away the fact that both are railways there is little in common which would make common management fruitful. Sure, there are areas where the two railways could beneficially cooperate more than they already do - particularly on the engineering front, if the right commercial environment was available.

For the government hiding it inside the lucrative South West franchise/management contract is a neat way to deal with a problem child. Maybe it might be better folded into Southern so that the Go Ahead group could manage it as part of their Southern Vectis bus operation! ( They operate 99% of the Islands buses.)

 

Slightly off topic, but there was a study 10 years ago or so about the feasibility of extending the Island line to reopen some of the closed sections. If my memory serves me, there was no economic argument for reopening either Cowes/Newport or Shanklin/Ventnor, but there was some value in reopening part of the line to Newport and building a station on the eastern side of the river. Did anything come of this, or were the complications of using a section of the IOWSR just too much, given the similar challenges that the Swanage railway are facing.

 

If the DMUs have been passed for use on the IOW I am very surprised they have kept the tubes running, the current costs for this is ever mounting. Importing these units should have been done years ago. The third rail would help finance the costs of getting them over there, the unknown is the large subsidy they get to run the trains, will this continue? To many questions, but I think the IOWSR does not have the funds or experience to run anything like this size and it would have to be paid employment not volunteers. The idea is filled with expensive problems and a non starter and also a bad idea to proceed any further than pie in the sky suggestion so to speak. It would also be the end of the Steam railway as we know it now.

 

The ex-LT stock is needed as, even if they have been passed to operate on the Island, there are no spare DMUs on the mainland.

 

The entire isle of Wight Railway system encapsulates and illustrates that the real monumental stupidity of the Restructuring of British Rail in the 1960s lay not with Dr. Beeching but with the faceless Ministry of Transport mandarins under Ernest Marples who were happy to sell off tiny pieces of rail land afterwards for peanuts, that rendered any future use of the rest of it as contiguous transport corridors virtually useless. There are whole tracts of IOW railways that are still undeveloped but with the missing few hundred metres in central Newport they are worthless. It would be no use building a station at "East Newport" - or even "West Newport" to reconnect Yarmouth and its ferries to the network - because everyone using it would either need a car or a bus to complete their journey. Modern approaches to branch line operation, conductor guards, Community Rail partnerships, tramtrains and cascaded sprinter stock - could have seen a regeneration of IOW lines but for the want of that missing middle section. Back to reality, I think the best hope for the line would be a management buyout. All the SWT staff on Island Line forming their own TOC and running their own operation as stakeholders.

 

one could easily argue that the Ryde-Shanklin Line is so unique as easily being almost a time capsule and an incredible line as it is currently operated! where else in the UK can you be guaranteed of travelling in 70 year old rolling stock? most preserved railways use much more modern Mark 1s!
it is well worth a ride on both Isle of Wight Railways if you visit!
cheers,
julian

 

Indeed, there is a lot to be said for being able to ride the following modes of transport, almost spanning three different centuries, all within an hour (as my family did last Friday - a fun day out on the IoW which had the good fortune of coinciding with the steam fair at Havenstreet on the IoW SR)

Stu