60009

Sir Nigel, soon.

 

But she will be the only one if 60009 is retired and until 4464 returns.

 

4464 is in quite a long overhaul queue at Crewe (which currently consists of 60532, 4464, a couple of Deltics & 5029) so she won't be out for a while.

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and 92212, shortly.

 

Maybe a few people will be inconsolable, but I'm sure most us are grateful for what we get, and excited about what's in the pipeline.

 

I'm more than grateful for what individuals and groups provide on both heritage and main lines but 60009 will be missed by many no matter what else comes along to tickle our fancy.

 

There is a wider issue here and I fear that the days of the main line certified individually owned or volunteer run owning group locos may be over for three reasons. We now have three loco owning TOCs, why would they pay a steaming fee to a third party if they don’t have to? Then there’s cash, even a good steady supply of work won’t pay for the next overhaul, take one example, Bahamas. It received lottery funding for its last overhaul which won’t happen again and as far as I know it has no firm work yet for this year. The third problem is manpower, there’s a hell of a commitment in working as support crew and those that keep them maintained and ‘match fit’ are generally not getting any younger.
There are exceptions of course, I’m sure Ian Riley’s engines will continue to roam the network but then his situation is quite unique. Providing the Belmond work is still there Clan Line should be OK but steaming fees are not likely to cover the next overhaul. It also had the advantage of being London based so has a large catchment area to draw on volunteers. It’s encouraging to see a fair number of younger people involved at Stewart’s Lane, one travels up from Honiton which shows a great commitment. The A1 is also an exception but relies on people who generally aren’t getting any younger paying regular contributions to fund the overhauls and a large wage bill.
There is also the option for loco owners to sponsor their own tours but that comes with a considerable financial risk, one cancelled train can knock a big hole in the funds.

 

The steaming fee goes to the promoter doesn't it? Eg; If RTC choose to run Bahamas on a Waverley, they get the bill, not WCRC who would be the TOC in that scenario? That aside, completely agree the main ones I see as being in trouble once the next/current ticket running out are 45596, 60007 and 6201.

 

In my opinion Ian nothing compares to the sight and sound of an A4 in full flight

 

On that we agree.

 

And for that reason, SNG will be in a relatively favoured position to attract work, just as number 9 has been.

Just to mention that KWVR are running a trip to Carlisle again this year with 45596 on 22 Feb.

 

My worry with 60007 is the deal with LSL. The 2020 tour list is just short of 30 tours, add on the odd Pathfinder or similar bit of work, it's maybe going to be in the mid 30's. Divide that up by the LSL fleet including 60007 and you're likely talking 7 or so tours per year. To get more work, 60007 needs to be on WCRC's books too, the question is will that happen?

 

I think we should wait till 2021 and see what happens when she is run in. SNG will be the most iconic loco at work apart from FS, and it will be surprising if LSL do not exploit that by identifying which trips the loco is booked for and charging a £20 premium or whatever.

 

Indeed, I hope you're right.

 

From https://sirnigelgresley.org.uk/news-a.shtml

"The Sir Nigel Gresley Locomotive Trust (SNGLT) and the Royal Scot Locomotive and General Trust (RSL&GT) have announced a wide-ranging partnership agreement for the operation of 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley when the present overhaul is completed in autumn 2019. The deal sees 60007 based at Crewe for mainline tours, interspersed with periods of operation on heritage railways, including the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, where it is intended to retain strong links. The locomotive will be operated primarily by Locomotive Services (TOC) Limited (LSTOC) and will haul Saphos Train Travel rail tours, although operations with other tour operators and TOCs are not excluded"

 

Maybe. But how long would it take to turn her round once there was a boiler ready to go? Bittern may be sat in Margate, but think about why JH/LSL acquired the ex-FS A4 boiler...

 

Yes, but from experience the TOC will often offer much better rates to use one of their in-house locomotives (combined package) rather than using a third party loco. So there can be a (fairly substantial) motive for a promoter to just say to the TOC we'll have the whole deal please.

 

Really? Those who stand at the line side to see SNG may well get excited as it passes , but those who pay the way of steam on the mainline might be much less bothered.

Those who buy tickets want a warm and comfortable train, a good lunch/ dinner and a train that run to the published timings.

They want a steam engine on the front, but are not too much bothered about the identity/class of said loco ids inappropriate don't care i f it's being run by WCRC, LSL, Vintage Trains etc

 

OK so how do you account for the premium which FS can command on otherwise like for like trips?

 

60103 is in a league of her own with the public due to the nameplate. 60163 is the only other operational loco with any kind of similar public draw that I can think of.

60009 I would say is popular with operator bookings at the moment due to impending permanent retirement. I'd put 60007 on a par with 6233 myself in terms of draw (which is no bad thing).