Double Decker

With the passing of less birch, that must place the whole site in some danger, his son i believe wanted to sell the land for re developement the selinge group got a lease on their bit of land, but i would not bet on preasure being put on them to find another home there was only ever the 1 coach, at selinge, its owned by the person who owns the O1 or was last i heard the group was trying to get back rent out of him or get the coach signed over, in which case, its future must be in doubt it really should be in the NRM

 

The difference between the DDs and the true European Double Deckers seems, apart from available loading gauge, to be that almost all European designs effectively use a "well wagon" type chassis, so the frame drops and the lower deck is below the normal level. I believe that it is theoretically possible to build a double deck car within "UK Loading Gauge" but with increasing electrification often reducing the supposed loading gauge, probably not to be of any practical use.

HS1 would permit double deck trains within Loading Gauge, as will HS2.

Steven

 

Higher platforms + lower loading gauge would always make internal access difficult. Weren't the 4DDs filled with steps/stairs?

 

Filled with rust and sheep sh*t now!

 

It is certainly not unusual now to have to steep up from the lower deck. The current German design has the access doors over the bogies, which means no level access inside except to the vestibules between the doors and the ends (which is also where some of the most perpetually disgusting toilets on wheels anywhere tend to lurk, waiting for their next unsuspecting victims!)

Steven

 

According to the VCT carriage register the 4DD car at Sellindge is owned by Southern Locomotives. Not sure that's true.

 

I've been on some very nice double deckers in Europe like the French TGVs on the Lyon route, some reasonably OK ones like the German stock and some downright horrible ones with fixed upper deck windows too clouded to see out of and no air conditioning in Poland. And some 'heritage' ones in Germany on a main line steam trip too. All interesting in their way but I would give my eye teeth for a ride on the Bulleid ones.

I can't believe they're "too far gone", at least not in the context of the sort of carriage rebuilds which go on at places like Horsted Keynes. But like all these things it would need a very large injection of cash for, in this case, little practical gain.

At this rate I am going to need to win the lottery a few times over...

 

This is sort of thinking aloud. Could a trailer car be saved and used as a hauled vehicle, a bit like a modern version of the SECR 100 seater. there are a few problems

The DD never had conventional draw gear - central buffer and 3 link chain as all 4SUB and EPB stock
They were air braked
The upper floor was pressure ventilated presumably fed from the lighting MG set

These probs could be overcome at a cost to have a unique vehicle in preservation

 

Double deck stock is all over Europe.
Belgium /Holland /Germany / Switzerland all have modern air on stock, including EMUs.

Going further east the ride gets more fun, Polands articulated double deck stock, with manual doors and windows (which all to often didn't shut) are in my mind.

 

Presume they came under the heading of "They seemed a good idea at the time." The BR Southern ones, that is.

 

I would say its just Mr Bulleid daring to think outside the box or just inside the loading guage in this instance

 

New units were required to replace pre war 3 / 4 SUB units and it would have seemed a good idea to carry more passengers in an 8 car unit. The alternative was extending every platform on the eastern section by 2 coach lengths probably seemed expensive and disruptive. That this latter strategy, together with the building of a fleet of 2EPB units, was adopted says a lot about the lack of success of the DD units. I grew up in S London with Catford Bridge as our local station. I remember the transition from 3 SUB to 4 SUB using a wide Bulleid type trailer, the introduction of EPB Stock and the introduction of 10 car trains, and you still could not get a seat at London Bridge in the rush hour. The conventional stock did however fill and empty quickly. This was important on the eastern section where some station stops were timed at 30 seconds

 

Dare I suggest that if we suppose that the idea of the DD stock was to show to the accountants that a rolling stock solution was not feasible and that they needed to invest in the infrastructure, then they could be considered a resounding success?

 

Interesting suggestion.

 

I believe the "tick" stops on the wtt were actually timed at 20 secs, so called because on the timing graph it was simple enough to show a horizontal line halfway across one of the 10th inch squares, but the 20 sec stops were each shown by a "tick" on the angled line.

 

No disrespect meant. However, when seeing a post likes this I am amazed how poorly informed many enthusiasts are about the surviving rolling stock that they report to have an interest in. The surviving DD EMU cars are always listed in 'Preserved Locomotives of British Railways', the sixteenth edition of which was published earlier this year (Platform 5 Publishing) with the current locations at time of publication. OK, I have an interest in promoting the book because my prime responsibility is to keep it up to date with regard to locations but it does appear many posters might benefit from having a copy.

The two intermediate trailers were scrapped long ago.

 

A strange way to try to promote a book...

 

No disrespect. That's what i thought as well. I always remembered one getting gassed but assumed that was one from four and not three. I always assumed Esmund had kept two with one at Coventry. Always thought that two were at Sellindge.

Won't bother posting pictures again of long forgotten rolling stock. Assumed that as well