Flying Scotsman

An interesting tour from Oxenhope to Carlisle and return - http://kwvr.co.uk/flyingscotsman/

 

Just some reading on 4472 livery FISH7373 81C NFP

 

According to the RCTS book A1 to A10 and P N Townsends Top Shed ,the A3 and A4s were built with a max cut off of 65%.Due to complaints from drivers about starting this was increased to 75 %,the first in 1946 , the last one was done in 1958. It could have been one of the 65 % loco's
Mr Townsend also remarks on N2s starting out of platform 16 in Kings Cross with 8 coach double quad set on the 1 in 37 from Moorgate. On restarting the driver could be seen leaning out of the cab watching the side rod ,as the engine rolled slowly backward, to the point of maximum tractive effort before opening the regulator. To reduce delays in the rush hour ,a loco inspector was sometimes deployed at the end of the platform to assist the driver in stopping in the best position for restarting with out reversing.
Getting caught on the "point of cut off "as a mate of mine used to say ,was nothing unusual on a two cylinder engine when starting on a gradient ,only one cylinder receiving steam , but a three cylinder engine, when only two cylinders would have steam ,was I think a bit unlucky.

 

There was a discussion of this a few months ago somewhere on the Forum. I'll try and find it. Meanwhile, I think the crucial point was that it is possible for a 3-cylinder loco at starting to have steam going into only one cylinder, even though, once it's moving, the TE is more even than with a 2-cylinder loco.

Edit: see http://www.national-preservation.com/threads/bulleid-wheelslip-question.543086/#post-1233894

 

Isn't there also a possibility that you stop in a position with one of the pistons near, but not quite at, front or back dead centre, but with the inlet open to provide lead steam. In that position, if the regulator is opened while the loco is static, the pressure in that indivdual cylinder has time to build up to full steam chest pressure, but acting in the opposite direction to intended. (Albeit the resolved component of the force is largely pushing the axle back in the axle boxes, but there is still a small resolved component attempting to turn the axle the wrong way, fighting against the larger force from the other two cylinders at a more advantageous position in their stroke. It certainly isn't helping matters).

Tom

 

That's a really interesting article, but I've never seen 60103 with apple green. E103 with apple green and British Railways is well documented, but I've never seen 60103 with apple green either in photographed or recorded.

 

There's a picture (albeit black and white) of the loco as 60103 in BR Apple Green (and one of her in BR Apple Green as E103) in Peter Nicholson's book Flying Scotsman, The World's Most Travelled Steam Locomotive.

 

Ta Dan. I'll have to get myself a copy. RCTS indicates that wasn't a possible combination if I'm reading this right. Fascinating.

 

Didn't it run in Apple green with a double chimmney and blinkers on test when Alan Peglar bought it? Or have I imagined that?

 

You imagined it

 

Its not a huge picture but she has British Railways painted on the tender and a high mounted number plate. A quick look on Amazon shows that there are number of very cheap copies of the book from independent sellers. I would love to see 60103 in either BR Apple Green livery should the loco ever regain a single chimney and blastpipe.

Also on Amazon as well as Flying Scotsman From The Footplate being listed as a 2 disc DVD it also has a run time of 4 hours so if correct could include plenty of extras and maybe The Return of the Flying Scotsman. I've pre-ordered a copy regardless given how much I enjoyed the programme.

 

It still wouldn't be quite right as it would have still been right hand drive in early BR days. Converted to LHD in 1954

 

One thing that many seem to have forgotten amongst the British Railways livery brigade, that it's the only "authentic" colour scheme for 'Scotsman. Is that none of the A1/A3s ran in British Railways days with a corridor tender. So even in this format Dark green is as incorrect as L.N.E.R. light/apple green. In the latest issue of Heritage Railways a letter writer goes on about B.R. green being the only livery he remembered her in so Q.E.D............ Using that argument apart from the current incarnation and the short lived MacApline Waterman period of B.R. green the engine has through out my life been L.N.E.R. green numbered 4472, so for me that's the only "authentic" livery as it's the only one I remember her running in.

 

Correct about the corridor tender, it only had that back in the 20s/30s but from a normal viewing angle you can't tell the diference. It's just as non authentic in apple green as 4472 as it was an A1 then, but it did represent an A3 in typical 1930s condition which was fair enough and it would look right on a train of teaks on the SVR or NYMR. It also looks right as it now is, the period in it's current configuration in apple green it was just a hybrid visually representing nothing

 

Well of course, the NRM does own a suitable LNER non-corridor tender. However, if 60103 were to borrow 4468's tender then the latter would end up in an inauthentic condition...unless the NRM repainted her Brunswick green as well, of course!

(But then, strictly speaking her present condition isn't authentic anyway, as the record plaques weren't applied until after the war. 60103 is not the only engine that has been subject to livery compromises over the years. Think of 3440 or 46100 for that matter!)7

EDIT: thinking about it, the Bluebell's 55, 473 and 672 all spring to mind as well. And that's before we even get started on railways that have devised new liveries in preservation, such as the early days of the KWVR...!

 

Actually...

If they swapped the tenders, and restored Scotsman's tender to how it was when used behind Lord Farringdon in the 1948 exchange trials, then it would be accurate for Mallard's condition as in 1948 when painted garter blue and numbered E22. This would then make her plaques historically accurate - but only when the valances which cover the locomotive (and arguably make her so recognisable) are removed in addition.

So a garter blue Mallard with Scotman's tender, sans valances, would be exactly representative of her condition in 1948, done correctly. Scotsman with the A4 type tender would be accurate for the majority of her working life up to her preservation in 1964.

 

Like the television snooker commentary of years ago: "For those of you watching in black and white, the brown is immediately behind the blue".

 

Must have been standing close to me that day...

 

This was my favourite from the day though...