Rowsley Turntable.

Does anyone know the status of the turntable that was being installed by Peak Rail at their Rowsley shed site?

 

Ooh ! thats a big can of worms you're asking about there !
Very sore subject to certain people.
It's basically 'done' but not passed fit for use !

Sorry it's not more informative but I think I might be Shot for saying any more !

 

Consider yourself shot

Let's just say that there are engineers with years of experience who really know their stuff and what are safe limits, then there are 'engineers' who will only believe what a computer program tells them!

Lordy

 

The Sorry Saga of Rowsley Turntable

Quite right LORDY, but there are other factors at play here. If this question had been responded to by the person who from 2001 worked tirelessly, together with a small dedicated band of volunteers, on the refurbishment and rebuilding of the turntable until he was removed quite recently from overall control by a joint Managing Director for no reason that fair minded people on the railway can explain, an alarming picture emerges.

In their wisdom the Peak Rail Board of Directors argued that information obtained in May 2007 from a “Live Loading” experiment (see image), carried out with the full knowledge of a Joint Managing Director who was in attendance at the time of the test, was subsequently deemed unacceptable. This situation arose because consulting engineers appointed by the Board, against the wishes of the volunteer responsible for the project, relied upon computer generated data which suggested the turntable was not fit for use for gross loadings in excess of 70 tonnes even after extensive modification.

The need for remedial work on the turntable, detailed in an internal report prepared by a volunteer with n40 years experience and presented to the Peak Rail Board on March 13th 2009, WAS IGNORED and a further external examination was commissioned. Although similar information, unfit in its present state was obtained, it would appear this information was also derived from a study using computer generated data.

However all was not lost because we are told on the Peak Rail Website, topic 347, the insertion of sixteen new bolts torqued to 41 tonnes per bolt (no reference to a cross sectional area) to secure the two halves of the turntable and other very minor additions will now be sufficient. The bolts were inserted without the knowledge of the person responsible for initiating the project in April 2001, because in the words of another volunteer working on the turntable he alleged he was told “DON’T TELL HIM HE WILL ONLY INTERFERE”. If this is the way volunteers are treated on Peak Rail, and there are many other similar examples it is not surprising to see so many old Peak Rail volunteers working at Ecclesbourne Valley Railway.

It is also rumoured that the centre spliced joint was too strong and would not allow the table to flex and would weaken the decking in other areas. Consequently additional strengthening pieces inserted by a coded welder have been removed. It is also rumoured that “Live Loading” could be in the pipeline after Christmas after a few more minor modifications. What ever will happen to the computer generated data or are we just ignoring it and using the tried and trusted method employed when constructed by Cowans Sheldon from drawings produced in 1935?

 

Sounds as though a vendetta and jealousy is interfering with common sense which happens all too much on preserved railways as I know only too well.

IMO it also appears that some of the powers that be want to take the credit for this mammoth task seeing the volunteer as the great unwashed, these people are parasites who feed off others.

It sickens me.

BTW if you see Dave Winter please give him my regards?

Regards
Chris

 

TWO AND HALF YEARS LATE THROUGH INTRANSIGENCE ON THE PART OF THE BOARD:
How good it is to see in the latest edition of the “Peak Express” numerous photographs of two diesel locomotives standing on the Rowsley South Turntable during load testing. From asking around I understand that all the people shown in the photographs were never there when the hard work of restoring the turntable was in progress during the first seven years. The first five individuals given a “tremendous thanks to” weren’t even invited to watch the testing, WHY? What was all that about weren't they confident as were the volunteers who had previouly carried out live loading and measured the flexing with strain gauges?
I hope what can only be called an insult to the volunteers who must have worked so hard will be put right at the official opening, on 1st May 2001, and they will get the credit that’s due to them.

Looking closely at the photographs below, prior to testing, the engineer responsible for accepting the turntable was fit for use some two and half years after the original live load testing doesn’t appear to be over confident, because there are sleepers stacked beneath the decking, or was it computer predictions still indicated the loading would be excessive as suggested by a program often used by NETWORK RAIL to assess bridge loading. Give me a good old fashioned slide rule and a mathematical knowledge to boot .

Vezi atașament 1165 Vezi atașament 1164

 

Pete Waterman is officially opening the restored turntable this Saturday (01/05/10) at 11am at Rowsley South Station. 8F 48624 will be turned to face south and will then operate the timetabled services for the rest of the day.

 

As a computer programmer myself it is an age old saying that the computer program is only as good as the data and programming around it, just like consulting a book any resulting conclusions can only be taken from the information provided within. All to oftem people assume because the computer says something it must be true while in practice the computer modle may be based on some one who has know actual knowledge of real world or take into account any historical information.

I could write a program based on thomas the tank engine and people would assume because the results are out of a computer it must be correct, but if I was to say I have consulted my addition of thomas the tank engine and according yo the fat controller the turntable should be in the shape of a square then would all laugth, but click click click, computer says and bingo.

 

Those interested in the technical side of approvals may wish to consult:

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/rsp005-minorrail.pdf

htp://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/381.pdf

The second reference has already appeared on the Gwili thread, but deserves the widest study.

Tim

 

Interesting - especially the bit on bridges

 

I'm surprised nobody has picked up on this but the Rowsley turntable team won a National Railway Heritage Award! It was presented by Pete Waterman (who officially opened the turntable last May) on 1st December at the Merchant Taylors Hall in London http://www.nrha.org.uk/News.htm

I can't find any mention of this marvellous achievement on the Peak Rail website.

Lordy

 

it was listed in the popular heritage rail press as recieving the award, and well done to mr Wirth,Derek and all yet again, i believe the incoming charters may be using it to turn on.

 

Is the turntable okay now to carry Oliver Cromwell on the 27th of May? About 150 tonnes or so..

 

knowing very little about locos and more about signalling, that would depend would it not on things like size of loco,weights,widths etcetera,and whether loco owners have requested it to be turned etcetera id think?

 

I think 70013 is only slightly heavier than D8 so shouldn't be a problem. When the 8F ran onto the turntable there was hardly any deflection such a good job had been made of it by the turntable team.

Dave

 

Wheelbase is given as 58' 3" on Rail UK so should squeeze onto a 60' turntable ok.

 

Ive been asked to let you all know that the turntable will be in operation this Sunday from 12.15 to 3.15p.m demonstrating the turning of a diesel locomotive.

courtesy PR senior management


dom s&t