Tornado

What has occured with Tornado is unfortunate, and this topic is obviously very passionate for some people.

There is obviously a huge amount of speculation on what may have happened.

whilst there is nothing wrong with speculation, there is no excuse for extreme theory and some posts in here make huge claims about safety and regulation without any proof, facts, evidence etc.

posts about Boiler explosions are no more reasonable than alien landings without any proof and do nothing more than discredit yourself without it, going further.. you may be called upon to provide that proof and stand by your claim.

Therefore can I suggest, sit back, relax, re-read what your write and ask yourself:

1. Does it make sense.
2. Is it factual.
3. Have I any proof.

If the answer is 0 out of 3... then I suggest you dont post it.

The moderators do not want to close the thread, but it cannot be left to rubbish itself with extreme tendencies and mad scenarios.

Before your next post, Zen, Think, Write... (it may make your keyboard last longer as well).

A few more posts have now been removed and a few more PMs have also been sent...

 

Having moderated several posts in here... this theory to me seems the most credible to date

 

I knew it ! IF they'd used British bacon, none of this would have happened ! (joke)

 

Just goes to prove what can happen if you enjoy Danish Bacon and pastries!eep:

 

Blimey, they didn't hang around then Despatched the day after the lift - good work

Haste ye back!

 

Photos of the boiler lift and of its departure on the A1 website here: http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?op...uary-the-boiler-lift&catid=61:2011&Itemid=253

 

Does anyone know who is paying for lost of revenue with the boiler going back to Germany?

 

This is a great disapointment for the A1 as a loco, but perhaps some good can come out of this once the assessment of the work needed has been made. In view of this being the very first welded boiler in use on the main line, it is probably to be expected that some untoward issues would emerge once the loco was in full traffic. let's hope the engineers can not only find out WHY this has occurred, but also be able not only to get "TORNADO" up and running asap, but also be able to let other owning groups know of what's been happeneing and lesons that have been learned, to improve things for the future. Best of luck to A1 trust in their endeavours.

 

Perhaps the current halt in Tornado's operation may also mark time to review the current environment in which steam traction is being operated - especially on the mainline.

Whilst not an engineer I posit the thought that current problems of main line steam need to investigate 3 specific areas :

1) The original steel specifications used in locomotive construction are no longer available in the UK as the growing purchase of materials from abroad hint at; my major question from this is whether the metal specifications currently used for locomotive parts are precisely the same as the original - and if not are they actually an improvement on the original ?

2) During the 1970s my friend was undertaking the study of "metal interfaces" at University on behalf of the British Steel Corporation and he was being asked to do because of a growing awareness of problems being caused by different material specifications being used together. A simple example is the use of alloy heads and cast iron block on Paxman engines in the 1960s ( Class 14 ) and 1970 ( HSTs ) which led to problems as the cast iron and alloys expanded at different rates, hence as the 2 metals were subject to heat, the engine quickly became "out of sync" resulting in failures.

3) Many posters have indicated that the current main line steam operation uses a different "operating cycle" than that employed by BR in "normal" steam days. Given this difference how has this been reflected in maintenance procedures.

As noted above I claim no qualifications or hands-on experience of engineering but it seems to me - as an outsider - that little attention has been given to the above 3 items either individually or in combinations and I wonder if perhaps now is the time to stop and examine what has happened on the main line to date - and why - with specific reference to failures in the context of what caused them; how were they corrected and - even more important - how were they avoided on other locomotives.

 

Technically it's not the first all welded steel boiler in use in Britain (and on the mainline), but it is the first of its kind - a previous design reworked for modern day running, changing the materials used as part of the overall changes to the design. Having done some checking, more German locos than I thought use a "machined foundation ring", but what exactly that entails (aside from the obvious difference to it being rolled, as in this country), I do not know. If someone would be kind enough to explain further, you have my thanks.

Has to be said, I think the boiler doesn't look too bad given the work its been put through over the last two and a bit years. The silver paintwork applied to it originally prior to the final cladding going on it seems to have weathered the work well, overall.

 

Ben, should you really be quoting things that you know nothing about, especially given that you are doing so under your vintage trains banner?!! I'll bet certain members of vintage trains management would not take a good view of this.
you should keep your own opinions to your own username and not involving your employers!!!!.

 

What other locos with all welded steel boilers are operating in Britain?

 

By way of light relief from some of the more serious matters discussed on this thread, here is my digital rendition of Tornado in blue:

http://northernblue109.fotopic.net/p68708198.html

 

Very nice. Looking forward to seeing it in blue eventually.

 

The Planet replica?

 

Quite a few narrow gauge and 15 inch gauge locos.

 

I was thinking that there probably would be on the NG scene. What did Blanche get in 2004 and Taliesin in 1999? What about Lyd and the new Quarry Hunslets?

 

You've done a good job Garry, but one little thing - I think the wheels should be painted black with BR blue?

Regards,

Dan

 

all of the above are welded, to the best of my knowledge, as are Mountaineer, Palmerston (I think), Lilla and the two Statfold built Wrens. However, saying that, having a rivetted boiler doesn't necessarily mean it is not going to have unexpected failures - Merddin Emrys and Earl of Merioneth's boilers on the FR being cases in point, in those cases due to excessive flexibility.

 

I agree! The wheels look good painted to match the apple green, but the blue looks a bit tonka-toy! Black please