71000

Re: 71000 - an update!

Hello all,
The locomotive currently sits inside Eastleigh works following an assessment into its current mechanical condition after the previous failure. Both the trusts CME and Deputy engineers traveled down on the weekend commencing 29/09/12 to examine 71000 and damage to the left cambox exhaust cam gear and center cambox camshaft drive has been identified. To facilitate repair both boxes require a full strip down, special parts and machining to rectify the faults. Wear to 71000's right hand motion, including the big end bush, and wear to both outside cross head slippers and slide bars has also been identified. The locomotive will not work as it is, the left and center engines are out of operation and the valve timing is now lost as the drive train to the outside and center camboxes is isolated to prevent further damage if the engine is to be towed. To add to these faults, there has recently been some fairly extensive work put into keeping the boiler tubes and firebox tubeplate watertight. Accompanying this is also the ever looming need of having to renew the copper firebox tubeplate, which is due at the next heavy general overhaul (2015) and it is likely for 71000 to be returned to mainline service before the current boiler certificate expires that a number of small tubes will need to be renewed.

For repairs to be completed successfully, in as short a time scale possible and to reasonable budget the engine must go back to its base. The East Lancashire Railway, where all of the equipment, expertise and facilities are located that are necessary to complete the repairs to enable 71000 to operate again, and having the opportunity for some running in and to prove the locomotive on the ELR. As well as earning some much needed revenue following repairs, revenue that will help ease the blow of the impending cost of repair and help fund the further work that will be required to bring 71000 back up to mainline operating standard.

However, during a recent meeting that was attended by members of the council a decision has been taken proposing a possible move to the Nene Valley Railway from the locomotives current location. The trusts director of engineering was outvoted 3 to 1 very much to the disappointment, against advice and a recommended repair plan submitted by the engineering team following the assessment that took place at Eastleigh.

So the question is, is there a particular reason for the engine going to the NVR rather than the ELR ?

The answer is no.

But the overriding issue here is that it is cheaper for charter operators that predominantly run in the south for the locomotive to be kept as far south as possible, thus avoiding the costs associated with light engine movements from the north. Fact of the matter is this is irrelevant, since the engine is not operable or fit to run at present. The engineering team and for the majority, the locomotive support crew are of the opinion that the councils proposed plans of relocating the engine to anywhere other then the ELR are extremely ill thought out, of no benefit to the trust, certainly not in the best interests of keeping 71000 alive and that this course, will likely lead to the locomotive remaining in its current inoperable condition for the foreseeable future with little chance of returning to mainline operating condition. There are three key factors that need to be acknowledged if 71000 is to return;

• Cost
• Time
• Commitment

The engineering team like the rest of the trust are volunteers and cannot commit to traveling to the NVR every weekend, the cost would be astronomical, both in terms of marriage, fuel and time. If returned to the ELR It's estimated that the locomotive can be in operation by December to test the valve gear and repairs, the same time estimate would move back to around July/August 2013 if repairs are attempted elsewhere, due to traveling time and work commitments and It's also important to note that the mainline boiler certificate would only have 4 months remaining as opposed to 12 on completion of repairs, leaving less opportunity for revenue earning before the impending overhaul.

The trusts principal engineers have 55 years of combined experience operating, maintaining and repairing Caprotti valve gear. Little to no knowledge exists outside of the trust. There are no manuals, no spares, there are no patterns. All of the parts are machined from blanks and forgings, very expensive, very rare. The reality is, If the engineers cannot commit then 71000 does not get repaired. A viable plan of repair can not be acted upon if the current decision stands and under the current heirachcy 'the impossible dream' is rapidly approaching the end of the line it saddens me to say.

I apologize for the lengthy update, but as patrons of 71000 you have the right to know what is going on and I think the time has come for you all to be in the loop.

Liam Clairmonte - 71000 engineering

 

Re: 71000 - an update!

I think part of that statement is a bit insulting to the team that restored and maintain 73129.

 

Re: 71000 - an update!

I was thinking that myself as I read it.

It might be a simplistic question, but why does 71000 spend all its time in the South for its main line operations. Would it not be better to have, what is, a northern based loco working in the North. Surely there is enough work up here, or is it another instance where politics come into the reckoning

 

Re: 71000 - an update!

So if it went to the nene valley you could teach the guys there about caprotti so other people know about it?

Also if it did go to nene valley and was fixed by Feb, it could be at the gala with Britannia. Hmm with the standard 5 they already have that would be very nice.

 

Remember they have a tremendous engineering works at I Riley & Son to help them as well, could that have come into the equation???

 

Might depend on how much money is available for outside work. I Riley isn't going to work for nothing, is he?

 

Re: 71000 - an update!

Not politics, I think, but commercial considerations. 71000 is not currently crewed by WCRC, only DBS. The tour companies that work with DBS at the moment are Torbay Express/Pathfinder and Steam Dreams. Almost all of their tours originate in the south: London (or c. 50-mile radius) for SD, Poole or Bristol for TBX. I can see the attraction of an operating base in the south, especially one that offers the chance of earning some extra income between mainline tours. The NVR is keen to become a mainline base, so perhaps they are offering preferential rates for loco stabling to attract business?

However, there's a balance to be struck between overhead costs and availability of the skilled people to do the job. The first task is to get the loco back in working order. After that, it's important to be able to keep it that way, with minimum interruptions to service (so it can do work and earn income). At the moment, 71000 doesn't have the best record for reliability, and I'd expect potential clients to want reassurance about support and maintenance provision for the loco before commiting to a program of mainline tours.

 

Im sure that the people who worked on 73129's valve gear did so in contact with 71000 's team

Not knowing who else is on the Council and their individual agendas its difficult to comment, but it must be difficult not to take it as a vote 'no confidence' in the present engineering team...ouch.

There is no short term answer to this. In the long term its a case of joining the trust, finding out what you can and voting people onto the council who you think will do right by the locomotive . i think this is something a few of us, myself included will now have to do...

 

Re: 71000 - an update!

I've heard Bulleid valve gear described as such, by an instructor trying to explain different types of valve gear. It isn't. It's modified Walchearts.

I agree with the 71000 Engineers, it is more economical in time and cost to move the loco to near where the engineering team live, than for them to wear out their cars and the motorway network. Unless those who want the loco kept in the South for the convenience of DBS & Steam Dreams are going to contribute to the accommodation and fuel costs of the engineering volunteers.

 

As has been said above, this I would think comes down to money and is it not correct that 71000 has been surrounded by a lot of politics for many years. SR seem to suggest so, not that it always gets it right. If money is tight which SR also said perhaps they don't have enough money to move it to Bury anymore?

Being no expert all I could say is its current unreliability must be a big headache for those involved and it couldn't carry on earning money unless that is sorted. Bet there are no simple answers though, its a complicated locomotive.

 

Let's not forget during its last spell at Bury, the loco got bumped and lost a number of revenue earning trips.

There must be some 71000 members south of the M60... It was restored at GCR originally...
Steam railway suggested some help maybe forthcoming from the A1ST.

 

Maybe that 'bump' has caused more damage than originally thought?...........................................

 

I was just thinking the same myself funnily enough, or did all the engineering team move north, years ago!

Also it seemed much more reliable during its first spell on the mainline, prior to it being tinkered with at its second overhaul, or am i just imagining things?

 

Hello again,
After reading through some of the responses posted here I feel that it must be made clear, that what is written in the report, are the facts.
It is not meant to be affront or pejorative to anyone. I can only present the information to you, and some of you will make your own assertions.

Martin,
No, Caprotti valve gear is not exactly "rocket science" or "a black art" but unfortunately, there are few people around that fully understand the workings and operating principals to the point where effective trouble shooting can be quickly employed and repair methods can be identified. Further to that and to dispel the notions that some of the writings in the statement are insulting to the 73129 group. I can say that 71000 engineers and the 73129 team have a relationship with each other, help and advice was given during the stages of setting up 73129's valve gear and commissioning, as well as giving further advice on trouble shooting and help with problems. A 10mm type K Davies & Metcalfe injector was also sold to 73129 prior to the 'the duke' going mainline for a very reasonable sum.

Andrew,
The vast majority of the engineering team are based in the north with the exception of one from the midlands. The only changes made to the camboxes at the last major overhaul was the installation of new profile cams, allowing for an increase in power and efficiency gains. This change followed on from recommendations made by L.T. Daniels of A.L.E (the makers of of the original valve gear) after initial main line testing in 1990 and is of no detriment to the current faults.

Thank you for your support.

 

Sorry but I think you've overstepped the mark there, surely it's for the professionals and those who inspect it to decide what damage was/wasn't caused. Mindless speculation doesn't help anyone

 

Thanks for the reply Liam and for clarifying the fact about the modification to the valve gear being in no way linked to its current problems.

I hope that a plan of action to restore the Duke to full health can be agreed by all parties involved in looking after this superb locomotive.

 

C'mon, a bump can happen anywhere and you know it. Are you suggesting the bump is/has influenced the decision?
One of the A4's got bumped in Canada...........best not send it back eh?
No, there's more to this than meets the eye, we've heard one side of the story from Liam, (I'm not questioning what he has said) I would be interested in hearing the other side.
Personal preference?? get it back to Bury.

 

Re: 71000 - an update!

Earlier in this thread there was a comment that (or along the lines of) it was insulting to the NVR people that they couldn't do the work on DoG. Now we seem to have a vote of a lack confidence in the DoG's engineering team. The plot thickens, but I can't help but feel that if the 71000 people get their act together then they are in serious trouble. Who is going to donate their hard-earned to the society in the current circumstances? Not me for sure, but money is clearly needed as is a clear way forward.