Andrew Barclay

Welcome to the Torque Shy Tall Knight Club.

 

Hang on a second. How does a basket case of a LMS observation saloon, a basket case of an Andrew Barclay and £38,000 worth of 2859 add up to £100,000 are the previous two worth £62,000 ?!?

As people have previously said how are you to raise this money?!? You seem to just want people to donate £xxx to you personally. Not to any kind of trust/charity/society etc.

 

I previously had some sympathy with Stuart when it seemed he started his Barclay and saloon project to provide a loco and coach for use on the Tanat Valley. However his recent comments about using donated money for assets he intends to sell and use the money for a totally different personal project have now exposed him as a cheating fraud from whom I hope we will hear no more, here, on Facebook or anywhere.

 

Including rods they want 65k I was last told for 2859 and completed Barclay I been told would raise £30k-40k

But the main aim is Barclay and then saloon.

I'm going to leave 2859 to that other group.

HLF have in the past funded individually owned projects.

 

HLF also apply strict criteria, which change from time to time, and ask for clear evidence of the credibility of the projects seeking funding. Payments are also staggered and linked to a completion schedule.

 

That's a few pots of paint. I wouldn't really call that a proper start to restoration. When you start buying/machining/fitting the framework, then you can claim to have started the rebuild. However since you don't have the money to do this, I suspect we will be waiting a long time...

Paint maybe, overhaul no. Who would be overhauling these parts-do you know anyone who has an engineering background who is prepared to help? Where would the money be coming from for labour, repairs, materials etc? Where are the workshop facilities to do the work in? The TVR don't have any, so what's the point in moving the loco there?

I'm confused by your maths...

Inspection saloon cost ~ £600
Barclay cost (I don't know, but let's be very generous) ~ £5k
2859 cost - £38k
That's a total of £43.6k - how on earth do you calculate that the items suddenly become worth £100k?

Bob has already commented that the saloon will take around £100k to restore
Others have commented that the Barclay's boiler alone will cost ~ £50k never mind the missing mechanical parts and the overhaul costs.
2859 is estimated at £750k for overhaul/new tender

That's a total cost of ~ £900 - £950k and the items would never actually realise that amount if you were to sell them after restoration.

Well the other 2859 group is raising £38k for the loco. Are you saying that the owning group want £27k for the rods??? I find that hard to believe.

Even if you stick with your 'plan' to restore the Barclay and then the Inspection Saloon (which I don't think you will stick to), you are still going to have to find upwards of £150k to do both. If the estimates you've been given are correct then the Barclay would only be worth the £30-40k after being restored, you'll still have to find £50-100k to actually restore it. You can therefore clearly see that the Barclay is going to cost you a lot of money - not make it.

Although HLF may fund some private projects, most of them are not. The guidance from the HLF (https://www.hlf.org.uk/about-us/news-features/investing-privately-owned-heritage) states 'In return, HLF stipulates that these restoration and conservation projects must show that public benefit outweighs private gain, and that there is clear public enthusiasm for what is proposed.'

The fact that you've stated on here that you would sell either the AB or the saloon or 2859 to fund other 'projects' would seem to me to show that the "public benefit outweighs private gain" test is not met. You've sunk your own boat. Also, as there are many similar AB locos and several of the Inspection Saloons, I don't think you can claim any uniqueness or clear public enthusiasm.

I get the impression that you want to be the next Jeremy Hosking. It's not going to happen. Mr Hosking has money.


Keith

 

HLF are getting ever more careful about how and to whom they award funding. Any project has to meet a lot of criteria and well run organisations are finding it increasingly difficult to gain grant aid from HLF. I hope I'm wrong but I fear your naivety will be your undoing and you will end up with no way of funding your 'projects' which will become a lot of scrap metal hung round your neck.

 

Well I'm in the process of getting the 2859 funding page closed and the 2859 Facebook page is becoming an unofficial page now.

I have a few people from another group that are going to do some work to the andrew Barclay omce 9ts been moved if it doesnt end up being located somewhere else in exchange for a donation to their group

 

After becoming completely bored with TV and social media due to the saturation of politics and all that guff, coming on here and reading (or should it be watching) our hero dig the hole ever deeper into which he is determined to fall is like a breath of fresh air. The only surprise to me is that people who should have known better were taken in by the posts regarding the completely ruined inspection saloon and the pile of patterns that comprise the AB tank.

Some people can learn and improve with age and experience and produce something great. Some cannot and will not and just spout endless hot air and BS and are simply fools. What we have here gentlemen of the jury is categorically and wholly described in the latter part of the statement!

Whilst it maybe amusing to read on an internet forum the preservation movement has been blighted by these idiots. The back sidings at the Bluebell (and no doubt most other lines) were full of wagons and coaches that were bought for a few hundred quid, transported to HK and abandoned in the vain hope that 'they' would 'do it up'. Inevitably 'they' did not and the damn things turned into wrecks and clogged the limited amount of storage space up. After several decades of weathering and deterioration any attempt to trace owners to get them to shift or restore it usually fail as said person has died, moved or forgotten they had the damn thing. Now most railways thankfully insist on a formal agreement to avoid this situation and where appropriate payment for storage.

 

I think that not too long ago a Hawksworth inspection saloon, in full working order, changed hands for about £60K.
Assuming that Stuart doesn't have a squad of volunteer joiners & sheet metal workers available he will be looking at a lot of cash to build a new body.
There must be £10k worth of hardwood in the body framing & when you add the labour at a generous £25.00 per hour (work on 2000 hours to machine & build the frame) , you're nowhere near completion & have already hit £60k.
Advice - sell the underframe for spares or scrap. Likewise the Barclay. Donate the surplus funds to somebody who knows what they're doing.

Bob.