ECML Azumas

Has anybody any info. about the PROMISED introduction of these machines ? they were promised last year..........faulty (incompatible electric lineside equipment) and since then the silence has been deafening. It's March next week, Leeds station has still to see anything new. LNER..........later, TP Express.......Later, Northern rail.............Later (I think we've all given up on that team, a set of booster batteries will get the Pacers started, let the punters complain a bit longer).

 

They have been in Leeds on test runs. Think there are some more next week, but I have no idea when they will be in service, sorry.






Dave B

 

Victor, much as I hate to say it, but I have an terriblle feeling that we will miss the Pacers when they are gone. Supremely awful as they are, they have one thing in their favour (and it is only one thing that I can think of) and that is that they actually work. They came off the production line straight into traffic and have given reliably uncomfortable service ever since. The new stuff seems to be so complicated and difficult to maintain that I fear that we will be seeing levels of cancellations far greater than those we are currently getting used to.

It must be nearly two and a half years ago now that Azumas started to appear on the ECML on trials - the publicity "do" with Flying Scotsman (remember that?)was in April '17 - and as you say there is still no sign of them entering service. Contrast that with the 1935 introduction of the Silver Jubilee when the first A4 went straight into service and worked the train on its own for the first month before the second A4 was released into traffic. What a contrast!

Peter

 

Interestingly, last year during the Great Exhibition of the North when Rocket was at the Newcastle Discovery Museum [the old Science and Engineering Museum]. LNER had a virtual reality Driver training simulator for the Azumas "running" Newcastle to Edinburgh and every time they started from Platform 2 at Newcastle Central the simulator only got as far as Manors the next station about 2 miles away if your lucky, before stalling/freezing and they had to reset the simulator.........

 

Was that Azuma's revenge....

 

How similar are these Azumas to the new trains on the Great Western mainline. ? They look the same, is there any differences between them (apart from the colour) ?

 

Same basic trains, apparently different interiors but have yet to have chance to feel whether they have softer seats.


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If you want to limit your contributions to 'the preserved railway scene'.......you are very welcome. You don't have to read or respond to anything other than preservation. It's your choice and your right.
I would refer you to the line of text UNDER the thread title.

 

Well said sir

 

OK let's talk preservation. The North Eastern Bo-Bo No.1 was built in around 1904-6 and is an electric locomotive, on occasion when I'm at Shildon [where she is based] I've remarked that she's older than most of the surrounding steamers. OK there's Hardwicke the N.E. 4-4-0 1621 and one or two others that are older, but Green Arrow, Black 5 5000, Winston Churchill are decidedly younger. Beamish and Tanfield Railway both have 0-4-0 Diesel locomotives built by Armstrong Whitworh in 1931-3, again another pair that are older than the L.M.S. Black 5s. Armstrongs' were an early pioneer in diesel traction, but they pulled out of railway locomotive building in the 1936-7 period to specialize in military construction.

 

Maybe we shouldn't mention a certain 4-6-2 finished in 2008 then? Just sayin...

 

The acceleration on the GWR Azumas is quite the thing… it'll be interesting to see how they take off out of Kings X, but I expect once out of the tunnels they'll be similarly 'sparkling' on the ECML. The prospect of sitting in 'those' seats all the way up to Edinburgh isn't great though… let's hope they've adopted a softer approach than GWR.

Are they mixed mode, or just electric?

Simon

 

As GWR, a mixture of electric and bi mode, all designed according to DfT’s rewriting of the laws of physics.

Sparkling acceleration which causes issues for people standing as the train starts, but underpowered on diesel compared to the HSTs they will replace on nice flat pieces of line like Cornwall, Aberdeen, or Highland Main Lines.

I can’t wait for them to replace my regular trains to London. Not.


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Oh…

 

I recommend reading Modern Railways on the subject.


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Feel free to correct me if I wrong but my understanding was this:

GWR was supposed to electrified to Oxford, Bristol, South Wales - so the plan was the majority of units would be electric only. I lived on the Cotswold line where short platforms and single track meant that 5 car bi-mode replacing 8 car hsts was not looked on well.

Electrification stalled/was cut back so the 9 car electrics became 9 car bi-mode (but this would add weight, cost etc)

From my understanding alternatives such as building locos to drag trains over non-electrified lines was ruled out by DFT as it would take too long coupling up at places like Oxford.

I believe that the IEP is the most expensive of the options available (Pendolinos,(sp), refurbished 91s and mk4, a UK version of the Traxx loco + rolling stock).

Some delays have been caused by things such as the pantographs on 5 car units having to be moved because in their old location they would have done things to the OHLE (waves as I recall) when running in multiple (pantographs not far enough apart).

I suspect that the seats are much like the resistance of the dft to locos. Anything that takes up passenger space. My impression with seat design is that the idea is to make them as small as possible so as many people as possible can fit in. Not that this makes any difference when you are sat next to a man who thinks his testicles are made of glass and therefore feels the need to spread himself across the seats.

 

That’s fair, except to note that DfT’s position on attaching locos has been consistently and widely disputed, based on evidence from British and (especially) continental practice.

There are strong suspicions that DfT policy has been based on the theme that “the answer is Hitachi, now what’s the question.”


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I went on GWR sets to and from Swindon a couple of weeks ago and thought they were fine in standard class, at least for that journey (it was not full despite all the seats being reserved both ways). They are very quick. At Swindon, I watched one set performing a quick change over from overhead to diesel and the diesel engines started without a hitch. What was surprising was the HST-style forest of paper seat reservations that greeted one on board, even though they seem to have digital displays to record reservations.

 

I have only been on one once from Swindon to Paddington. It started off as Diesel but then switched to electric power (I think at Didcot ?) and it noticeably improved the speed and reduced vibration etc. I understand since then the electric wires have been switched on as far as Swindon but not further yet.

Makes a big difference from having the diesel Engine at the end of the train as on a HST or having it below the floor just under you.

Seats are very hard. Go back 100 years and we had fully padded and sprung moquette seats nicely upholstered, now we have 1 inch of foam and a bit of vinyl (no springs) although I understand that is what the TFT specified they wanted.

 

As a serious point - what was the passenger capacity of a GWR Express in 1919?

Does a peak hour IEP hold more people than an HST, 11mk1s, interwar GWR train or pre WW1 Express?

Also, frequency is greater, even since the 1990s when I was commuting down to Bristol it was 1 train an hour, whereas now it is every 30 mins. (I think)

The sheer total number of people being carried over longer distances, means something has had to give (given that running 16 coach trains is out because of infrastructure costs) and that is passenger comfort. I guess they work on the assumption that very few people will be on them for more than 2 hours. Much the same as with the really hard seats that BA is using on their European fleet.