Flying Scotsman

I thought that was 3801.

 

Perhaps they spent too much time together in 1988…

 

i remember reading a book many years ago that was based on Bill Sparsatt and his time with Papyrus . it described the taking of a wartime load of 750+ tons over Stoke . close to stalling with the frames flexing at each piston thrust . they could do heavy haul but is was definitely not their forte

 

From someone who has argued the importance of evidence for years, I am surprised that you make this assertion but provide none.

 

The limits (Recomendations) set out for FS were done by respectably knowledgeable people after her last overhaul , they are well within the capabilities of a youthful A1, and sensible for an elderly A3 . However because FS can fill carriages at the mere mention of her presence and because money talks the chances of seeing the old gal Toying with a relatively short mainline charter train are slight.
When you can fill 12 bogies and then apply shovage via a box and the punters keep coming back for more then that is what will continue to happen and if performance is no longer an issue then the Kylchap may as well be replaced with a flowerpot and smoke grenade.

 

Are you for real ?

 

She doesn't look very notorious to me?

 

This isn't quite in the same bracket as the Thompson thread. But if you insist...

All following photographs are respect to their copyright owners, links below each photograph.


http://historyasm.blogspot.com/2016/01/why-is-flying-scotsman-so-famous.html

At the Empire Exhibition at Wembley, 1924. Seen by hundreds of thousands of people from the world over. LNER apple green, 4472.


https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/...tial-non-stop-run-to/photograph/asset/5109213

First non-stop run in 1928. Covered by the press in UK and abroad, witnessed by thousands lineside. LNER apple green livery, 4472.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flying_Scotsman_(1929_film)&psig=AOvVaw1wpS5Vdze93sCS-__X3Lqw&ust=1649339372572000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjhxqFwoTCMioiY3K__YCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAR

As a film star in "The Flying Scotsman" - 1929. Britain's first "talkie" Covered by the press in UK and abroad. LNER apple green livery, 4472.


https://dcmsblog.uk/2015/09/bringin...aks-the-100-mph-mark-london-30-november-1934/

Breaking 100mph barrier as the first authenticated 100mph locomotive. Covered by the press in UK and abroad. LNER apple green livery, 4472.


https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/640502gs.html

When preserved by Alan Pegler in the 1960s was put back into as reasonable a depiction of her time as LNER no.4472 as possible including swapping to a non corridor tender. LNER apple green livery, 4472.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011vfqw

In 1968, she did the non-stop for the first time in decades and for the last time in this country. LNER apple green livery, 4472.

Oh, and with that link you can watch the BBC iPlayer film giving history, etc.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://twitter.com/railwaymuseum/status/1196451601923346432&psig=AOvVaw1hkxhGZHl0SWIdOmoWWagk&ust=1649340451253000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjtmvqOzv_2AhWY8rsIHam7DC0Qr4kDegUIARCdAg

Here she is in 1969, crossing the united States. Witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people and reported on globally. LNER apple green livery, 4472.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7naevtuP2Og&psig=AOvVaw1soMzcOyWyfZ7vhTldICog&ust=1649340527068000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjhxqFwoTCOix8cLO__YCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

1988. Flying Scotsman travels to Australia and becomes the first steam locomotive to circumnavigate the globe, and also do the longest ever non-stop run by a steam locomotive to Alice Springs, both feats that have not been repeated by any other locomotive. Oh, and you can watch this link too. LNER apple green livery, 4472.




In 2000, Flying Scotsman appeared briefly in the 102 Dalmatians film (!) - as part of the plot. Watched by millions worldwide. LNER apple green livery, 4472.

Inbetween all of those events are large parts of her life where she's either been in LNER apple green, numbered 4472, in service, for the LNER, or in preservation running as LNER apple green, 4472, running railtours for hundreds of thousands of people, seen lineside and on board train.

If you've reached the end of this post with any doubt as to what's her most famous livery, you haven't been reading!

 

It's always interesting how amongst some members of the railway fraternity, I am held to a higher level of scrutiny than others are. But I rise to my obstacles!

 

Of course the ultimate solution to the issues surrounding FS, which is the same for ALL preserved locomotives from Puffing Billy up to APT is to scrap the beast. As like all other preserved motive power and it's associated rolling it's obsolete equipment as far as the national network is concerned or their jobs disappeared [i.e. the coal mines and other industrial uses] when the businesses closed withdrew from rail use.

 

Can we perhals leave revisiting that until we've made a clean sweep of all the obsolete, inefficient buildings in the country?

 

This could go on for ever but what has been forgotten is that the loco ceased to be a working engine for which it was designed in 1963. From that date it became a working museum piece and custodians have a duty to maintain it as such. That leaves two options, revert to single chimney in LNER livery to represent the appearance of a typical A3 in the 30s or leave it as it is representing the final development of Gresley's design. The upgrading was a natural progression and would probably happened sooner had WW2, Edward Thompson and nationalisation not intervened.
On the subject of double chimneys, Peter Townend quotes the cost of the conversion as £153 per locomotive and showing an average coal saving of 6lb per mile so the cost was recouped very quickly. To quote his words in Top Shed; 'The A3s particularly were given a new lease of life. Whereas it had been the practice to to keep these locomotives off the most arduous turns to Newcastle wherever possible in preference to the more powerful Class 8 Pacifics of Class A1 and A4, the A3s once again handled any of the main line expresses from Kings Cross to Newcastle and Leeds and were frequently used on the tightly timed Talisman and Tees-Tyne Pullman trains.'

 

I think you bring some of it upon yourself Simon. You make much of "primary evidence" and challenge others to present their facts so it's a bit of an open goal when you make a statement which, at the time of making, you haven't presented your evidence. Your subsequent post did a fine job of that though.

 

I wonder if the idea of restoring the "elephant ears" to the A3 grew out of the fine spectacle of seeing the similarly equiped Hudsons running alongside it in Victoria.

Peter

 

I thank you for the links, some of which I had forgotten, and I hesitate to quibble given the prejudice against particular liveries from some quarters, but none of your examples demonstrate that LNER apple green "is the best known". You, I and everybody else have no idea, as AFAIK no contemporary survey has been done to find out. The situation is directly comparable to the prejudiced views of Thompson and Gresley which you have done such a good job of illuminating. We all "knew" that Thompson's locomotives were useless once upon a time! Incidentally, I am unconcerned whichever paint she ends up wearing as I have seen every variation of paint, chimney, and deflectors since 1956.

 

Livery does not come into it. For the vast majority of the general public, it is the name "Flying Scotsman" that is the attraction. It could be painted in pink livery and the crowds would still be lineside.

 

Great idea ..... let's test it out!

 

Paint one side in LNER, and the other in BR, problem sorted........

 

That has been done on something else, IIRC. Was it for filming purposes?