Tornado

That's been the case for some time. I recall Duncan Ballard at Bridgnorth saying that boilers were needing to have replacement steel added, not to replace the original steel but that which had been added as a replacement in preservation days.

 

How many miles between boilers? Not wishing to stir the pot, just curious.

 

A rough guesstimate - A1s did approx 70,000 miles annually. Look at the dates and you’re probably looking at somewhere between 70,000 and 100,000 miles. Quite a variation of course but I can see the boiler swaps are by no means annual.

 

The description of each of them is given as 'General' service.

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600101032&loco=60145

 

The quality of steel has generally improved since the war in that a lot of impurities have been removed. This has affected its resistence to corrosion. Carbon is always a closely controlled element and only varies with the type of steel that you specify.

I think that it is fact that Tornado's boiler didn't get off to a good start in life for various reasons.

 

I'm afraid that is totally incorrect. There are better techniques available today for welding in particular, but there was nobody had higher standards than the main railway workshops for boiler repairs. Indeed I would say the opposite to you, there are many repairs carried out to boilers by some today that a railway workshop would be appalled of!

 

I'd disagree quite strongly with that, although with the moderate caveat that there are a few utter bodge merchants about today, however it ever was thus - I've found some great bodges from back in the day when I've been repairing things.

Don't believe me? Go at look at the fireboxes of a few well worn locos which haven't run in preservation. I've seen copper patches screwed over patches, over patches. Same on the outside - cracked backhead shoulder patches, with patches over the top of them. BR would routinely shorten used tubes to lose the worn out bits off the ends, and put them back in something else - you try doing that now.

There were also a number of moderately destructive bodges that bought you time - e.g. replacing inner firebox lap rivets with massive copper patch screws which get tooled down over a lap to get round the fact that the lap edge has burnt or been caulked away. I think that one is still in the HRA guidance notes (more or less lifted verbatim from the red book), but I'm reasonably sure most boiler inspectors would have a heart attack if you proposed to do it...! Modern practice tends to be welding in new lap inserts instead.

 

Isn't the problem mainly one of steel quality. IIRC in the last century there was reported problems with steel not being the same quality as their certification suggested (IIRC it was specifically Chinese steel certificates that were the problem) and a secondary problem that steel quality in general was NOT the same. I seem to recall that arsenic was no longer allowed in the steel mix hence it gave a softer steel that reacted differently to heat when applied to boilers with consequent shortening of boiler life. I have a copy of the 1948 LAMSAC guide which has full details of steel qualities with their BS specification - many of which have changed and not necessarily for the better in terms of application to railway locomotives.

 

And of course, the supply chain is world wide, you may well order metal needing to comply with x spec, and your supplier has to in turn order it from somewhere else, that possibly won't entirely meet the spec, but be a close match, or even, not be what you ordered, wasn't there a problem with a batch of copper a few years back, that kept cracking?

 

We will just have to disagree then.

Like you I've also seen plenty of ex BR boilers thank you. Industrial loco boilers are a different story, bodges you describe are often seen here.
I have never heard of or seen ex BR boilers with patches over the top of patches, certainly not existing shoulder patches.
I agreee with you about the copper patch screws over burnt flanges, but that would have been carried out on a shed and would not have been a main workshop repair, works would have fitted a new door plate or tubeplate rather than weld inserts in as happens now.

 

Have you seen the old firebox out of LSWR T3 563? (Granted, some of it may be due to wartime conditions, but it doesn't look like a first effort by the boilermakers responsible.)
Pat

 

Standards have certainlt improved with regard to boilers in recent years. What surprises me is that we now have much greater capability to find fault through such as thickness meters and NDT compared with that available to boiler inspectors of old but at the same time we have become more cautious in what we allow. I have BR documents that allow a boiler to enter service following a general repair with a firebox plate thickness of 65% of original. Nowadys 85% seems to be the norm where wastage is concerned.
Somewhere I have a paper written by a boilersmith on repairs to boilers and has a section on keeping locos in service when problems arise. From what is written, I'm guessing that the person worked at a large steelworks but I don't know. there are some 'interesting' suggestions, such as replacing broken stays with nuts and bolts and even fastening bits of angle iron to give added strength. I don't think he resorts to wire winding of boiler barrels, though. I'll have to go on a search for it but I'm fairly certain it is hidden in the loft.
Piecing of tubes was quite common, especially when they were of copper or brass. Another thing that seems to have totally disappeared is the use of tube end ferrules in fireboxes instead of beading tubes over. Much easier to do, as well. I've got several hundred 1¾" ferules if anyone wants to resurrect the practice. Made by the Patent Ferrule Co., who are still in business.
I'm led to believe that 70000 Britannia had a stitched repair to a crack in the firebox from BR days but I've no evidence of that being fact. Perhaps someone else can verify it. I've certainly come across a copper firebox the boiler inspector requeste a hole drilling in it to check the thicknes and the hole was then tapped out and a taper plug fitted. That used to be common on steel plate, though. Tom Rolt mentions it being done on T.R.No.2 in Railway Adventure.

 

I hope that the firebox has been retained as the workmanship involved is incredible and a true example of the boilersmiths art.

 

I think I read that that will be the case.
Pat

 

Tornado’s boiler left the old Works today, heading for her new home:

 

P2 and Tornado in their new home:

 

It won't be long before they regret not painting the floor!
That said, nice space, lots of elbow room.
Pat

 

I wonder how long it will be until they regret not fitting an overhead crane. Another amazing none the less.

 

Anything else you lot want to moan about?!

Having built one and a half replica locos already, I would guess that they have some knowledge of railway engineering and the resources they need to it.

 

Correct, i bet you can hire many many cranes for the cost of building one into the building.