45699 Galatea

'mike1522', thank you for the response.

Regards

 

Mike - I'm sorry to disagree but the phrase "worn out" hardly takes account of the overhaul leading to her return in 2009, or the engineering facilities and staff at Carnforth. Her mileage since her return to service - albeit fraught with the problems we are all aware of - may indicate that there are problems somewhere in the makeup - but I don't think worn out touches it.

It would be interested to get some technical advice, but we are dealing with WCRC and they are not known for going public in a big way, but my own guess - which may be a million miles wide of the mark is lubrication problems, or metallurgical problems.

I can't think that 5699 can be all that far away now, we all saw where she was up to in summer 2009 and that will soon be three years ago, and Leander has always been well kept, so both may be back fairly shortly.

Double headed Jubilees - now that is worth waiting for - and if they can sort out 6115 - excellent.

Bahamas I fear will be some time, unless the BLS fall into a money pit, or suddenly acquire bus loads of working members; accordingly a brace of Jubilees in early prospect rings my bell.

 

Frank we don't entirely disagree, You know more than me.

What are Metallurgical problems?

 

Prospect of three jubilees in the near future sounds good, though my money is on 5690 before Galatea, and probably 2013 for 5699... They work hard at Carnforth, but the working fleet also takes time... If you look at their track record..they seem to do one major overhaul a year..

46115 completed for summer 2008,
48151 completed during 2009,
44932 completed for summer 2010,
34067 completed for summer 2011
so for 2012 - 5690? and maybe 2013 for 5699 .. 2014 for 5972 ? .. That would leave a gap for 3 more before you start again.. Plenty of rumours circulating about exactly 3 locos for wcrc and 10 locos is quite a sustainable fleet.

As always.. We can rumour but have to wait and see.

 

I remember some years ago talking to Davy Murray about 60009 and why it was brought to the SVR.

My question was about the distances involved traveling down from Scotland.

His answer was simple sort out the bugs on the SVR then take it mainline.

I well remember one of these runs on a clear winters evening with a larger than normal train after Sterns 5mph no 9 was really opened up and the sound was incredible reminiscent of Peter Handfords Waverley route recordings. This was how the sorted the snags before going mainline.

This is by no means a criticism of Carnforth just the No. 9 boys making use of what was available.

Cheers Dave

 

IIRC 'Scots Guardsman' was withdrawn in the seventies because of a cracked frame and that weak frames were a design fault with the class with many engines having to have their frames replaced on rebuilding to the taper boiler design. The question therefore is whether or not the cracked frame was repaired or replaced, and perhaps this is the source of the comment re 'metallurgical problems'.

There doesn't seem to have been an issue with lubrication with the 'Royal Scots' pre-preservation so there really shouldn't be one now. I find it difficult to believe that there is such a problem on 46115 given the strength of the engineering expertise available at Carnforth.

Regards

 

When the Royal Scots were rebuilt all had new frame plates, with the stretchers being reused. The frames were 3-1/2" shorter than the Fowler Scots. The first loco rebuilt, 6103, received a brand new frame set and the following rebuild used the stretchers from 6103's original frame set with new frame plates and so on. All the rebuilds were also fitted with new cylinders.

 

There was a recurring problem of overheating middle big ends with the Royal Scots. A few engines received replacement roller bearings on the middle crank, but neither of the two surviving engines has this modification.

David

 

There doesn't seem to have been an issue with lubrication with the 'Royal Scots' pre-preservation so there really shouldn't be one now. I find it difficult to believe that there is such a problem on 46115 given the strength of the engineering expertise available at Carnforth.

Have you considered the possibility that there may have been a change in the oil used? I believe it is not unprecedented for different brands of oil to have differing properties, and it isn't necessarily anything to do with engineering expertise!

 

Well, what happened to the talk of Galatea? It shall be interesting to see if she gets steamed up for testing and a debut on the mainline this year that is for schur(sure)

Do the guys at Carnforth need 4 steamers next summer in order to avoid this past summers scenario?
How well would Tangmere be able to handle the Settle and Carlisle. City of Wells was able to do it.

 

61264 - exactly

 

Not so sure it was as simple as that. It is true that all 2A boiler engines had new cylinders after that it gets a little cloudy.

The first rebuilt engines certainly had new frames and re-used stretchers as you say, but there were a number of engines with the original boiler which were also equipped with the new frames but retained the original cylinders until they received the 2A boiler. In addition to this the last ten rebuilds had a variation in side frames and a changed arrangement of stretchers. Certainly 46100 had this changed arrangement, but I'm not sure about 46115 because I don't have the order in which the engines were re-built to hand. In addition I don't know whether any of the earlier engines were changed to have the later arrangement, but some 'Scots' were certainly re-built by BR to have a roller bearing on the centre big-end.

I have always found the 'Scots' to be a fascinating subject, but a very frustrating one!

Regards

 

To make things hopefully easier, I would like to start a thread called "let's talk Carnforth"(4932, 5231, 5690, 5699, 6115, 8151, 34067)" Does anyone think this is a good idea before I proceed?

 

WCRC have a reputation for not wanting to discuss their affairs in public. James Shuttleworth does a good job of providing us with information regarding railtour operations when he feels the need to. I think we should leave the company alone to their own affairs.

 

I won't proceed then thanks

 

That's only my opinion Mike, other people may disagree with it.

 

The actual frame arrangement modification to the last 10? rebuilds was the replacement of the bolt on cross stretchers across the driving and trailing horns with pin jointed cross stretchers. This required a new design for the horns as well. Also the last 40 rebuilds were fitted with Horwich style horn keeps.
46100 Royal Scot was rebuilt June 1950. It was not one of the last 10, hence the question mark above.
46115 Scots Guardsman was rebuilt August 1947 and should have the first design of stretchers across the horns. Can any one confirm this?

 

Im no expert but this video suggests something other than the frames, correct me if im wrong.

Failed 46115 Depart Victoria.avi - YouTube