45699 Galatea

What is the issue with 45699 when she returned from Kings Lynn. It looked like a bunch of steam was escaping from one of her cylinders if I recall correctly.

It's great to see things shaping up as well as they are in Carnforth for the big summer months!

 

There was a cylinder leak when I saw it at Ipswich.
Though I've seen worse.

I still believe they are just saving it for the big day... They told us Aug 7th 2012, what its first train would likely be...

Just depends on 5690 now, anyone know how its doing ?, busy year at Carnforth as best can be seen if they turn a 3rd one around from overhaul this year...

 

Good to see the latest images of 45699 out on the main line show that Carnforth have got the glands nice and tight, no leaking steam as we saw on the test runs. Not sure from the videos that Galatea quite has that "Jubilee" beat that I remember, but maybe that is time playing tricks with me.

Superb job, Carnforth, whats next...?

46118

 

Funnily enough both myself and a colleague thought that about the beat.......and that memory is from the fifties......

 

Indeed. Very difficult to determine the difference, but there is a difference. The six beats sound very even, whereas in squadron service I recall a slightly uneven cyncopated beat, with the emphasis on the third beat possibly? Unlike a "Gresley" with the emphasis on the second beat.

Dangerous territory this....!!

46118

 

I grew up with Bushbury jubilees and later when I got a decent bike went to the Lickey and Water Orton all jubilee hotspots. I distinctly remember what can best be described as a triple two beat, very even which would change emphasis going away Galatea does not to my ears have quite this sound.

Cheers Dave

 

Sorry if this seems a silly question, but how can you have specific beats on a loco? In musical terms you'd have a clear beat one to begin the bar-without a piece of music, doesn't it just depend where you start counting from? I can see how you'd get 4/4, 3/4 etc, but not how you'd get an accent on beat one, beat two, etc.

 

Not a silly question at all! In basic terms four exhaust beats from the chimney of a two-cylinder engine for each revolution of the driving wheels, , six for three cylinders and so-on.
Listen to say a Black 5 or a Hall, and you will hear four evenly spaced beats, but go to the other extreme, a Gresley 3-cylinder, such as a V2, and the beats dont appear evenly spaced.
Its down to the valve gear design and valve setting for a particular class.
Hopefully someone with more technical knowledge can help.

( Reaching for my copy of the "Handbook For Steam Locomotive Enginemen" to read the chapter on valve gear!)

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To my musical ear its easier to "hear" the valve timing of each type of loco in forms of syncopation - the length of the complete set of beats is all the same but the emphasis is in a different place after the first beat (Like a jazz pattern) - Even the two cylinder engines such as 70013 aren't totally "even" as the overrun beat is always less strong...I pick up the same thing with petrol and diesel engines - for instance if anyone has a VW polo 1.2 3 cylinder, the idling beat is the same (or very similar) to 34067 at speed...it probably sounds bad that I have noticed that...!

With no frame of reference (I've never seen or heard any other Jubilee of than 45699) I personally couldn't tell if it was any different...

Mechanically, I could probably tell if something doesn't sound right with enough frame of reference but what that means in terms of actual mechanics or problems I would have no idea!

I assume that like on a car the different emphasis on the beat are the valve events happening at different times, and an even beat means that its all happening at the right time? Presumably there is some pretty tricky setting up to do for valve timing/reverser cut off?

 

It may sound different because of quite a few things.

How its being driven, How much its has been pulled up, How hard is it working, How large is the train. If she has picked up her water slightly the beat will sound wet and muffled.

 

Valve timing* on a car is set up equally for each cylinder. If the camshaft is ground correctly then each beat will be the same. Variations in the note/noise/beat will generally be caused by variations in the exhaust length from each cylinder affecting what the ear hears.**
Valve timing*** on a loco can be set up differently for each power stroke and variations can occour between all cylinders.
This will be affected also by the type of valve gear used and whether it is direct drive or 'conjugated' drive.

*Timing will be affected by wear and/or adjustment of individual valves etc. more prone on rocker driven valves.
**The ear is a remarkable device and can detect the slightest variation in tone.
***Loco valve timing is somewhat of an art and a highly skilled one at that.

 

"Galatea" appears to have quite evenly spaced exhaust beats, at least on the recent videos I have heard. The last time I heard a "Jubilee" starting out on the main line was "Bahamas" leaving Hereford, sometime in the 1990's, and distictly recall thinking that I could hear that distinctive Jubilee exhaust rhythm as I remembered it from the 1950's and 60's.

Perhaps all due to the "black art" of the valve setter!

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45596 leaving Hereford.

The double chimney does have an effect as well.

 

Thanks for that! Exhaust beat not as apparent as I thought, so I am going to put this down to age and memory playing tricks!

However...I grew up at the side of the Midland main line, on a long 1-100 bank between Chesterfield and Sheffield, and could open my bedroom window of an evening, and tell a "Jubilee"--literally--a mile away by the exhaust sound.

I guess we are going to get ticked off for drifting off-topic, but again I say how very nice to see a Barry wreck back on the mainline, and dare Isay it, although I only ever knew "green" Jubilees in BR days, I think the BR crimson does suit the loco very well, as indeed it did on Leander. frankly "livery" is a minor issue. It is back in steam doing what it was intended for. All credit to Carnforth.

Regards

46118

 

A week to go, to the promised jubilee fellsman with 5690 and 5699, I guess the passengers paying for it will have to wait until another occasion to get what was expected. (Will it be 46115 + 45699 now ?)

How is 1T57 going with 45305, 70013 and 44871 (wrong logo on tender) + (44932 running as 44781)?

 

44871 has been removed from the line up for 1T57.

 

Two weeks to go surely! I have never seen anything to suggest that it would be 45699 and 45690, it was always advertised as 46115 and 45699 on the Statesman website if I recall correctly?

 

Thanks for answers about exhaust beats chaps, very interesting! Remember reading an article years ago about a lady that Bill Harvey was training up to be his valve-setting-protege, will have to dig it up...