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6023

Discussie in 'Steam Traction' gestart door Eightpot, 4 okt 2011.

  1. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    There's a video on the 6023 Facebook group of some test runs carried out last Friday (15th) - even light engine its not creeping about quietly!
     
  2. Robbo

    Robbo Member

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  3. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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  4. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

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    This is great news. 6023 sounds great, really sharp exhaust beats in the video. I never saw or heard a double-chimney County, but I've read that they made a distinctive loud "stamping" exhaust sound. I wonder if the sound the King is now making is similar? It seems that congratulations to Jos Koopmans are in order. It will be fascinating to hear more results when the loco is really tested with a load. If this new design of blastpipe is a great success, it will make a really interesting comparison to the double-chimney 6024, maybe 6023 will be even better? I wonder if 6201 might benefit from a similar blastpipe? Fascinating times ahead!
     
    Roger Inwood en S.A.C. Martin vinden dit leuk.
  5. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    For those interested in an explanation, it is all about exploiting the possibilities of the chimney. When I analyzed the Rugby data for my PhD thesis I found that a chimney length to diameter ratio of 2 was the value below which the front-end performance started to deteriorate. Momentum transfer within the chimney needs a certain path length. Since the original King chimney had a low L/D value Ell improved to 1.8 and from there to 2.6 with his double chimneys. The shortening of the present chimney had the effect of diminishing the L/D ratio from 1.8 to 1.55 resulting in the absence of draft, very annoying but a valid scientific result: chimneys can be too short.
    Of course double chimneys can each be doubled again and the resulting four are given the “Dutch treat”, they share the single chimney and their boundaries are fluid. As a consequence each jet uses ¼ of the chimney volume and the L/D’ ratio now doubles from 1.55 to 3.1.
    The orifices are located on the axis of each of the four “chimneys” which are defined by the inscribed circles of both choke and exit and their distance from the choke is the 6 orifice diameters proposed by Ell. As you can see it is all an extension of earlier research results but with fluid dynamics theory in mind. As such the King’s front-end is now a “proof of principles” involved.
    It is a pleasant 350£ fix for a 700.000£ “problem”.
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
    oddsocks, CH 19, W.Williams en 3 anderen vinden dit leuk.
  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    That is fascinating! So can this principle be applied to virtually any single chimney locomotive in theory?

    Well done sir on your work, having listened to the video it is truly spectacular.
     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    So is it still a single blast pipe exhausting through a single chimney but with different dimensions to the original?
     
  8. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    Oh no! See the picture on: http://www.6023.co.uk/news/news.htm
    Regard it as 4 chimneys, specially packaged!
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thanks for the link. Explains why it sounds quite different from when I heard it last.
     
  10. Muzza

    Muzza New Member

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    Could the same concept be applied to, say a single chimney A3......?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  11. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Interesting stuff indeed.

    But what is the Diameter of the orifice's? They look at a first glance pretty slim...

    Also,personally I would be tempted to double-lock those bolts as a minimum.

    Also Also, why square? Is this something to do with the L/D? Volume requirement?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 20 apr 2016
  12. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    Yes, but if you are looking for a special case, a double Kylchap would be superior!
     
  13. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    What, you mean take concepts first used abroad, first implemented in the UK on a GWR locomotive, and then use them to upgrade an LNER one? I'm sure that could never happen...
     
    GWR4707, andrewshimmin en Jamessquared vinden dit leuk.
  14. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    Each is 3 inches, for a combined total equivalent of 6 inches, larger than anything before.
     
  15. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Out of interest, which GWR loco(s) got the double Klychap treatment?
     
    andalfi1 vindt dit leuk.
  16. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    6" per cylinder...??
     
  17. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    I can't see any reason why not, then they could get rid of those horrible elephants ears, and that drab green could go too!!!

    As a bit of thread drift has Jos done any such work on the humble 'Austerity' tank AKA J94. Having driven & fired both standard and Giesel variants, the improvements with the later are remarkable, but having studied the graphs etc in Wardles book the Giesel is not the 'perfect' device that the inventor claimed. Is there a simple upgrade available and has anyone used this without the need to change the std chimney (I know about the Gas Producer locos).
     
  18. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    No, 4*pi/4*3*3 equals pi/4*6*6 for total area.
     
  19. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    Please note that the Giesl Wardale discussed was a special large one for SAR. Imho Giesl was not so good in his calculations and like the UK there are single applications elsewhere. It is quite probable that the Austerity version was allright and it would be difficult to surpass its performance with the standard chimney. In the end one needs an identical exit area to the Giesl.
     
  20. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    I dont follow this...

    Each pipe pipe is 3" dia. There are 4 of them. I get an orifice area much larger than 6" for total orifice area.

    We are talking about orifice area right?
     

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