61264

42085 was a Whitby engine, although as in the case of 'Morayshire' I would be very surprised if it ever visited the Moors. On a side note, other than it, the S160 and 45428 the only other preserved steam loco of which I am aware which is known to have worked over the Moors pre-preservation is the NRM's NER long boilered 0-6-0.

 

In some ways actually a superior loco to a B1, it'll just never get passed for Whitby.

I don't think the public perceive any steam loco as being "Wrong" because of where it operated under BR. The concept simply doesn't enter their minds. The S160 used to attract questions about its past, not criticism. Same with 3672. which has a plaque on the side relating its service in Egypt & Greece.

I'm afraid I fail to understand you comments about the Maunsel Locomotives. The Schools is a very high quality piece of design. The S15 is a very effective workhorse, which is how I'd also describe a B1. Without wishing to get into a "mine's better than yours" debate, the SR locos are better steamers and I find them a more comfortable working environment.

 

D345 did. Incidentally Barrow Hill's D2066 worked the last revenue earning BR service over NYMR metals - a pick up freight from Malton to New Bridge.

 

I'd love to see the NYMR with a wider selection of locos appropriate to its history, but they either don't exist, are firmly rooted on other lines, or aren't suitable for modern day use. The NYMR already has one of the largest collections of LNER engines based there, and if 61306 ever came on the market I'm sure there would be strong interest in acquiring it. The D49 isn't available to us. Of the other types, we already have black 5s and a standard tank, 76079 is as close as we can currently get to a standard class 3 2-6-0, and the two Fairburn tanks aren't available, and neither is 43106. The other two types used on the line in later years, Ivatt class 2 in tank and tender form aren't powerful enough and there aren't any on offer.

Please do suggest which suitable engines could be attracted by long term agreements, I'm sure the NYMR management would be interested!

 

I'm still not sure i understand your reason for loathing the maunsell designed locos, a great designer who produced excellent locos including the most powerful 4-4-0 (schools) in the country and at the time the most powerful engine (Lord Nelson) in the country until superseded by the GWR!
In a time when families are cutting back on spending and as i've read in several places preserved railways are being hit by the lack of funds around the U.K taking aside gala events, which are mainly aimed at enthusiasts, is it not more important that when Joe public visit any preserved railway they experience steam for all it's glory. A family who choose to visit the NYMR and the S15 is one of the locos in traffic, they get to experience SR motive power in the north of england which is something you can't do in many other places around that area! Basically what i'm trying to say is, the main aim of every day running of preserved railways is to raise funds to secure the future of the railway and to encourage new volunteers to also secure the future of the railway. Surely what's pulling the train and what livery it carries is not the highest priority...Or is it just me that thinks this??

 

Strange isn't it that the "appeal" of some Gala guests anywhere on a heritage line is either a loco returning to its old stamping grounds, or that the class yhas never been seen on the line before!

Steven

 

I'll echo Ed's sentiments about the Maunsell locos on the NYMR. The S15 isn't the most glamorous of locos (in my eyes, anyhow) and, compared with a Black 5, B1 or a standard, it is pretty crude ( I find both the S15 and the Schools awkward to drive sat down) but it does the job with absolutely no problem, day in and day out and both the S15 and the Schools will beat the hell out of a Black 5 when it comes to their ability to boil water. And that is saying something.

 

Out of curiousity why would a S160 never get passed for Whitby, would it shake itself senseless at 35-40MPH with the balancing ?, certainly with Panniers approved for that speed i doubt it's a wheel diameter issue.

 

The corners into Whitby are very sharp, thats why SNG isn't allowed into Whitby, excepting a couple of runs in 2008.

 

More a "Been to Poland" issue. Type approval essentially. I'm not sure what records exist for it, and also how much it will have been modified from the spec that was approved for UK mainline running.

 

Most Polish locomotives sold come with a full historical maintenace and depot record cards.. however they are in Polish and would probably need to be translated !
As for spec.. I doubt it's having it's original US Made boiler for a start, many other imperial measurement objects will have been replaced with metric equivalents, air braking (in fact even installing brakes).. etc etc over time.
can it do 40mph.. absolutely... you tube S160 and view archive (read 1980s) footage out there

 

The NYMR's S160 had an extensively rebuilt boiler/firebox (it was to have had a complete new boiler built but in the end it became too expensive iirc). Whether all the appropriate material certificates etc were obtained may be an issue.

 

No Id agree with you it isnt the highest priority, keeping the railway operation certainly is. However, I think that some southern engines just don't cut it for me. I dont like the appearance of their smokebox and I think machalite green is bloody awful. Black 5s weren't too common to Whitby, but they look and feel right more or less, especially given the classes assosiation with the line in preservation. People are right that the exact engines that ran on the line are not around, but you can get class mates. 61264 is one example of a B1, which looks great on the line, so does that Standard 4MT, and 4MT-T. Engines such as a Q6, A4, and A2 you could think are just as much out of place being away from heavy freight or high speed passenger, but your needing the power and the names of engines to get the crowds in so that they know good engines work there. I agree that the railway should be kept running, but preference makes me want something close to a proper northern engine.

 

Many years ago, now, I attended a talk by Richard Greenwood on the KWVR S160. In it, he made the comment that 'the Poles can't weld.' That statement is as true with the NYMR's loco as he intimated it was with the KWVR loco. Polish engineering from the 1980's was pretty poor, if not diabolical, and 2253 suffers from this.

 

I think that statement is a bit harsh.. if someone gives you a biro rather than a welder the result will be poor. Poles are not blessed with the same luxury and wealth we in the UK are.. poor tools, cheap metals, poor facilities aint going to produce a poodle. GWR brasswork was viewed as like gold and stared at in disbelief when 5521 visited Poland.
At the end of the day the price paid for it reflects the quality.. an S160 probably wasnt bought for greater than £10k and it's overhaul in Poland was probably £30k back 20 years ago. Even today you can probably overhaul an ol49, with new steel firebox for less than €150k euros and 2 of them do 250 miles a day in Wolsztyn year round.... I think I read somewhere the tkt 2-8-2T was overhauled for £30k in 2006.
Bad weld... well I see a lot of rough edges.. but if it works that's all that mattered.

 

The proof of the pudding re the s160 debate will come in the next few years when the 2 under overhaul at the Churnet Valley and KWVR enter service. Both seem to be having comprehensive overhauls so any problems with future reliability etc won't be able to be put down to the age old excuse of poor materials/engineering by previous foreign owners.

 

The NYMR's S160 had lots of problems when it was in sevice, but these were attributed mostly to the quality of workmanship from the overhaul in Poland before it arrived at Grosmont. It's probably fair to say that it underwent a lot of improvements whilst it was in traffic but needs a lot more when it is overhauled, but it doesn't seem to have been popular with some influential people and hence is at the bottom of the queue, even though it has been suggested that it would be relatively cheap to overhaul.

When it first arrived on the NYMR I wasn't very enamoured of it, but it grew on me, and now I think it is a wasted opportunity.

 

For what we'd get for it, we might as well place a big tarp over it, and sit on it for now. Lots of work was done on the boiler, such as installing flexi stays in places that they are needed. You certainly never heard anyone suggest that 2253 wasn't up to the job. Look at it another way. If a B1 came on the market, I doubt you'd get much change out of a million if you bought it. OK, mainline registration would be straightforward, but we've three 4MT's, 45428, 30926, 30825 and maybe 34101 to share one Whitby turn per day. The S160 will make light work of the Moors only jobs, and I suspect that you'd get it running for 1/3 of the cost of a B1. Better still, sort the boiler properly so that it can operate at its intended working pressure, and it would be a phenominal machine.

45 mph to Battersby? It would sound good, but I'm not sure that I'd want to be on it tender first on the way back!