Flying Scotsman

What an interesting thread, with two discussions; one about whether the human ear can hear whether a steam loco is set up ok or not, the other about the English Language.

Much preferable to arguing about paint!

 

What's needed for FS now is the legendary Riley Black 5 reliability in service.
It's going to be a BIG day at KX, the media will be out in force.

 

I thought the graphical display of the exhaust beats was fascinating. Well done Pete S.

It seems to me a selection of such charts for different classes side by side might be instructive. The one for the Super D might not be a pretty sight though. A comparison with a pre overhaul beat for 4472 might be interesting as well.

 

So, what in your humble opinion is a lot of rubbish and why?

 

The discussion about Gresley exhaust beats takes my mind back to the early sixties when I used to watch the early evening fast freight to March through Lincolnshire, usually headed by a York V2. You could hear it approaching from a couple of miles away across the flat Fens. I never thought of the exhaust beat as irregular or uneven, which can seem like negative terms. It was more like different notes in a piece of music. Thanks to this discussion I've now got some understanding of what was going on. I will always remember the sound of a single chimney V2 on full song and hope some day to see Green Arrow operational again.

 

I think that you would be rather surprised if you knew the extent of the knowledge held by some of the good folk on this forum. The steam locomotive is not so simple as one might like to imagine. It can be viewed as simple, indeed in basic concept it is. For some the basic fundamentals are enough since other aspects of railways and their history interest them more. Fifty shades of Railway Enthusiasts? Probably more.

 

The important thing is that She is back and hopefully will settle down to be a good reliable performer and all the negative things are now in the past, under Ian Riley and the NRM you know she will be properly looked after when on and off the main line,

 

When do they get the paintbrushes out?

 

hi steve,

i meant no offence to you personally.

Churchward used 'flat' pistons on the GWR. i am firmly of the belief the 'dished' piston relates to inside cylindered locos to reduce the 'jutting out' of the stuffing box gland on the piston rod. it's use on later loco types has always seemed odd to me!

i dont want to bore forum members with technicalities, but the 'release' event in the valve gear is but one part of the events although it is the one heard as the exhaust beat. with Walschaerts you have a fixed lead component but the amount of pre-admission does vary on notching up. arguably the cut off point and pre-admission point are more important to developing power than the release point, as is the extent to which the valve opens.

the Gresley conjugated gear isnt perfect. Holcroft didnt like it and neither did James Clayton.

there is a great deal that hasnt been said about the draughting in this case the passages below the blast pipe nozzle. Jos is absolutely correct in what he stated.

Mellish has already dealt with the piston rod on cylinder volume, with which i totally agree.

cheers,
julian

 

On the footplate.

 

The original question was about why there were louder exhaust beats (I think - it was a while ago!) I tried to give a simple explanation of one of the many reasons; that was due to the larger volume of steam on the non-piston rod end which, whilst relatively small (3.4% if my maths is right), is sufficient to be noticeable. Variation in piston head clearance volumes is probably a red herring except at very short cut-offs. I've also brought in the question of angularity and, given that the loco will almost certainly have been set up for equal lead, the point of cut-off is going to be fairly close for both ends but angularity will have a small effect on the point of exhaust between the front and back strokes. Depending on the cut off and a host of other variables, that can be up to 2.5%.
Why the LNER stuck with their use of solid forged piston and rod and consequent complications, I don't know. However, the flat, hollow pistons used on GWR/LMS/SR/BR locos are not without their problems (loose pistons and displaced core plugs to name two), it probably comes down to personal whims. Phillipson suggests it may be used as a means of reducing piston rod length and increasing con rod length but I'm doubtful that it is the reason here.
The disadvantages of the conjugated gear are well-known and the variation in 'beat' will only get worse as time goes on. To have it set up as well as it presently appears to be deserves congratulations to those involved.

 

Whilst I would hate to interfere with all the bickering on here, but just to note that there are photographs on the SNG Facebook page this morning that show that she is presently face to face with SNG in the NRM workshops with the offside motion stripped down. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207230678997074&set=gm.10153361727658148&type=3&theater No sign of any paintbrushes as yet?

 

Odd, they seem to be inspecting the leading driver crankpin.

 

IR reports that one axle box was hot on the light engine move to York - they are working on it now..

 

Nicely positioned over the wheel-drop for extraction of the leading wheelset?

 

Isnt 60007 already occupying the wheel drop?

 

Scroll down.
http://intheworks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=862&start=920

 

From steam Steam Railway Magazine

FLYING SCOTSMAN UPDATE: Bearing runs hot on 'Winter CME'
LNER 'A3' No. 60103 Flying Scotsman ran a hot bearing on one of the leading driving wheels during the 'Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express' of February 6.
The Gresley 'Pacific' has been moved to the National Railway Museum in York for repairs, as well as its repaint into BR green livery.
NRM Senior Press Officer Catherine Farrell said: “I can confirm that the bearings on one of the front wheels was running slightly hot on the passenger-carrying mainline test run – the Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express - on February 6. We’re removing the wheels to investigate further.
"The locomotive is currently at York to be painted and we hope that this will not impact on either the painting schedule or the inaugural run [from King's Cross to York] on February 25.”

 

Which contradicts what IR says on the works, all fine on tour, problem manifested itself on LE run back to York.

Good to know they are on the job, and sending manpower immediately to rectify the issue.

 

Did ET make it a better engine? Would be interesting to know what other people think