Tornado

Lets hope for their sake that the Tornado Train does better than FM Rail's 'Blue Pullman' - maybe some of the same coaches???!!! Not sure what market they are chasing after though, surely the luxury market is Belmond Pullman territory though??? The biggest looser will probably be Riviera Trains...

 

I suspect the pricing will entirely determine which market it drops into, looking at the capital outlay that is likely to be needed to create a rake of 15-16 such coaches, its not going to be a cheap process and prices will have to reflect that. For many 'normals' especially at the younger end of the market quality of service and facilities will likely trump anything that Belmond can offer, as I said before beware of biting the hand that feeds you.

 

Weren't they all mk2's?

 

Talking about Riviera, has anyone else noticed that they only have 'The Royal Scot' and 'They Royal Duchy' sets advertised on their website now. What happened to the others?

 

Are they the ones that Mr Hosking has bought and is now trying to recreate Carnforth with at Crewe?

 

P

Pass! I'm no carriage expert, after MK1 they all look the same to me!!!

 

I

I think so yes, apart from a Mk1 Kitchen Car

 

Perhaps I have missed something over the years, but how come Heritage Lottery fund is involved with a new-build project? I thought they had an embargo on modern investments? I wonder if they are moving to the Hitachi plant, they have plenty of green field space and a new turntable connected to main line.

 

That 'table was only a 50' one, and in any case has just been sold/donated to the KSE project. Nice thinking though

 

Many thanks for the update Mark, glad that the turntable will have a new life after so long.

Cheers,

Alan

 

They might get the whole plant if Hitachi drifts away after a few years as a consequence of Brexit. (One should never miss an opportunity for a dig!)

 

I’m puzzled. Where is all this stuff about “having someone with the capacity to operate it where it needs to be operated” coming from?? Or indeed the subsequent suggestion (b) “that their sole TOC cannot resource her where the tour companies wish to run her”??

Can anyone think of any episode or occasion where DBC’s resources have constrained the Tornado tour programme? Whilst I understand that they may have general constraints on the overall volume of main line steam work that they undertake, I don’t believe that there are any attendant geographic constraints of the sort hinted by the question/ suggestion in this post. And looking at the nationwide pattern of Tornado’s outings both before and since the 2014/15 overhaul, there’s certainly nothing there to demonstrate or even faintly suggest a problem.

“So little work”?? A1 SLT have publically stated (SR or HR – can’t remember) that they are aiming for up 12 outings of their own next year, with a greater accentuation on the contribution of the dining contingent of their patronage to overall revenues and profitability. Alongside this will be their residual BBP commitments, let alone the possibility of other work (Pathfinder/ TBX). So it looks like its going to be another busy year for Tornado, following on from the 23 days out on the main line this year that it will have completed by year end, together with stints at Didcot, the Nene Valley Railway and the Severn Valley Railway.

I’m sure that they (the Trust) have this one well figured out, at least in the short term. Added to Tornado’s powerful attributes of “Reliability”, “No Chaperone”, and “Gauge-friendly”, they will from next year have a real USP in the 90mph proposition that made Bittern such a star turn three years ago, and all of this indicates that they are planning from a position of strength.

So the debate about the amount of work that Tornado presently gets all seems a bit spurious, as do the three suggestions about why it might be “so little”. Much more relevant is the point about the greater challenges of finding work for two locomotives and how this is going to work out in the medium to longer term future. I’m sure that the Trust will be considerably exercised on that one!!

 

Apologies if this has already been covered, but is the intention that the A1 and P2 will overlap operationally for considerable periods? Or is the aim that, in general, one or the other will be operational, but not both simultaneously?

Tom

 

There has been a lot of speculation as usual so here is some more. With the amount of investment involved I think this train will be aimed at the G & T set rather than the enthusiast so the trust will want to present a uniform appearance, the obvious paint style is the LNER excursion livery of green/cream. Air conditioning doesn't work with open windows so I assume the thought is for air con luxury during any part of the journey with a box on the front and windows open if you want when the steam comes on.
Further speculation, why a V4? They were used on the West Highland Line so possibly in the long term future we could be looking at a luxury Jacobite. In the fullness of time more details of the plans will no doubt become known.

 

I understand where some people are coming from as regards 'where's the money coming from' for all this and I'll admit it's going to cost a fair bit. I don't understand some of the negativity on here. This is a group who have said 'we're going to do this' and they've delivered, or are in the process of doing something about it. Ruddy Hell! If this was Mr Reeder I could maybe understand it. This is a credible group with a credible background not some bloody cowboy outfit!

 

If you ask my missus about air-conditioning she will tell you that if it's cold, close windows and if it's hot, open widows. simples..

 

Never underestimate the power of negative thought (or positive thought for that matter).

RE the heritage aspect, if one reads the briefing you'll see it's for the sheds, overhaul and maintenance facility, turntable and the carriage shed. Not the locomotives or the rolling stock. That in itself is reassuring in a number of ways in terms of presenting the best that Darlington has and using it to its greatest effect.

 

Couldn't agree more, we are not talking about a bunch of starry eyed enthusiasts and I'm sure the P2 is being built by the P2 Locomotive Limited to isolate its finances from Tornado and no doubt the new projects will also be stand alone projects so if one part fails it doesn't have a domino effect.
As far as financing is concerned, since becoming a member of the Trust I have noticed they are particularly skilled at obtaining sponsorship ( otherwise known as corporate begging) for all sorts of things. I don't believe either West Coast or Belmond need worry, it strikes me that they are looking at a new market of luxury travel with a steam experience to a destination or possibly an event rather than an enthusiasts steam bash or a Champagne travel experience.

 

It's an interesting thought and rather intriguing too, overall it seems to make sense and fingers crossed it works out although a lot of man power will be required. To also add to the most important debate as well, surely carmine and cream is the best livery for the stock and something that wouldn't look hideous on the Mk3 coaches?

 

Article in the latest Steam Railway, Tony Streeter spoke to Graeme Bunker. They will concentrate on ECML but will look at the Western and parts of the West Coast. " It would be nice to get somewhere under 4 hours to York".