61306

Cracking shot

 

I'll bite...

Noooo!!!!!! There's a lovely black B1 on the NYMR! It looks lovely in Green!!

 

Absolutely not. There’s another B1 in black elsewhere. Leave the apple green alone please!

 

Well said that man.

 

Just a pity that the only two plausibly available liveries are amongst the two least attractive (IMHO) steam era liveries out there. LNWR black is just dull, while apple green falls neatly between the stools of dignified (SR olive green, BR green) and charismatically bright (malachite green).

 

Isn't it time we left it up to the man who pays the painter ?

What I would say is the current version of the livery seems much more luminescent (brighter) than the first preservation livery back in 72, and I suspect far brighter than any version of apple green Scotsman ever carried. As to whether it is 'right' for the image presented I'd have to defer to people who know more about early BR liveries than me.
My memory of 'real' liveries is largely of a thick layer of oily soot on top of whatever the painters applied.

 

The bottom livery is how she looked new out of works, minus the nameplates.

The top livery is an absolute mish-mash of periods, spec and other things.

The livery she currently wears is by far more accurate and better for colour than she has ever worn previously in preservation.

I never realised the black rimmed wheelsets were a thing in preservation until now - always thought that was an error on Bachmann and Mainline's models!

 

This would be okay with me ,Ex Cowlairs Works, I spotted 61261 on 65A Eastfield Glasgow .17/08/1958.

 

If one is talking Apple Green it may help to identify whether that is the Darlington or Doncaster variant as there was a difference in the two shades IIRC.

 

Where did you get this info from?No one else seems to know about it .What shades of LNER apple green did Cowlairs and Gateshead use when they gave LNER pacifics overhauls.

 

There have been several articles about it in the railway press over the years, I seem to recall a piece about colour matching the shades of the Y7 at Middleton a few years ago.
Didn’t both works use different styles of Rivets, then of course there’s the Darlington trademark of lining out the cylinder covers.

 

Yes your right about slightley diverent linings from diverent works ,all very well dockumented in RCTS book ,LNER classes AI to A10,considered by some to be the bible for those engines. But there is no mention of diverent shades of LNER apple green from any of the works.Considering the book was put together in the early 1970s , some members of the RCTS ,railway men and enthusiasts ,were arround pre ww2 days ,they would have noticed the diverent shades.I would have thought that would have received several mentions in the book.

 

Did they use different colour undercoats? That would have an impact on the shade of top coat. it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't some difference in the post war colours, like everything else paint pigments were in short supply. The LMS had the right idea, everything black!

 

Which means the GSR must've had it even 'righter'. In the case of many older pre-grouping Irish locos not fortunate enough to be at Inchicore of Limerick for an overhaul ahead of a repaint, photographic evidence often suggests the undercoat for the drab grey was merely whatever it had been painted in last time around .... which often lasted rather better than the grey!

 

The Y7 (not Y10) at Middleton was painted using a swatch in the possession of the North Eastern Railway Association as a reference which I believe had been acquired from Darlington works by Bob Hunter. However, this was NER green, known, I think, as Saxony green and not any LNER green. There were no British Standard colours to refer to back then and having a reference panel for the painters to refer to was the norm as they mixed their own paints. That would inevitably lead to variations in colour

 

By time you consider different undercoats; different varnishes (both in coats and composition); paints being mixed by eye to match colour swatches (possibly in not especially well-lit workshops); and then subsequent weathering (sunlight, pollution) I'm sceptical as to how much two locos in different shades were caused by design rather than just by happenstance. Objective differences between how different workshops finished locos (such as green or black cylinder covers) can be well attested, but I'd have my doubts about the reality of "Doncaster" and "Darlington" green as being deliberately distinct by design, rather than just an outcome of workshop practice.

Tom

 

I think that sums it up. I remember a long correspondence on livery in the Historical (Hysterical?) Model Railway Society Journal many years ago. A former worker at Ashford Works made the observation that no matter what colour they were painted when they left the works, they weren’t the same colour when they came back in. I could imagine the sun and sea air around the Kent Coast would have done.

 

Thank you that Steve. (No where I got Y10 from)

 

Although perhaps a slight digression from 61306, on the subject of liveries now LSL has taken over SD, it would be great to see a rake of Mk 1 coaches painted in green for use on SD services. The first SD train run under the new ownership will be using air conditioned Mk II stock (see here) but hopefully this isn't going to be anything more than a temporary measure. SD began life using the Mid Hants' "Green Train". It has always been primarily a South of England based set-up. Obviously, much depends on whether SD become absorbed into Saphos or whether it keeps its own separate identity. (There is also the intriguing question of where the recent developments at Robertsbridge fit in to all this.) Of course, even given the massive finances and substantial facilities available to LSL, it still takes time to overhaul a Mark 1 carriage, especially to the high standards that it demands, but it is quite clear that the existing Saphos schedule plus the SD operation demands two sets of steam-compatible stock and a rake of green Mk 1s for the latter would be refreshingly different.