Fire Risk

SVR are on red risk, although ours is slightly different to NR in that we don’t have the diesel element.

But really I suspect Pres stuff should be approached in a different thread as this one is really about mainline, and we’ve had to battle to get it kept in ‘What’s Going On’ .

 

Good to get information about Heritage line, and I see it is now on the Heritage Lines forum. Maybe move this one across to that one as you suggest?

Bryan

 

Ffestiniog - Diesel / Welsh Highland - Steam with limited load
East Lancs - Diesel only
NYMR - Diesel only
Vale of Rheidol - Diesel only

 

I'm just amazed that NR's fire risk status is not at the highest level - there has been extremely little rain over much of England for several months now. The only real difference between now and high summer is that the vegetation is relatively new and fresh and not burnt to a crisp yet. No idea if the lineside fires were steam-caused, but it seems likely and I can't understand how 70000 was allowed (according to reports here) to put in some real work en route.

 

The issue in most quarters will be they have to have cause to up it to Black as obviously it has implications on TOCs. It’s to very often it goes that high because when they start getting in to telling TOCs no steam at all, there’s obvious repercussions that come with that.

All the ashpans are fitted with really good equipment that prevents stuff raining out of them, so as long as locos aren’t worked well there is little chance of a fire as in theory nothing out the top or bottom. 5699’s trip over the S&C proving just that. And as such largely to appease everyone steam can stay on the front, act as a headboard, please the passengers who wanted steam, and as such the repercussions are less

 

South West England and much of Wales had some steady rain last night with promise of more later today, might ease restrictions temporarily on mainline and narrow gauge - but dry weather set to return later this week.
Long range forecast not indicating any sign of change until end of May (probably coincide with school half term!).

 

Indeed - we in Surrey had some large torrential storms last night, which were quite widespread as they moved NW from France. However, the BBC forecast got it badly wrong by saying that last nght would be dry (!), but with some thunderstorms today (with a Met Office yellow warning today). So far there are just a very few, very light showers over England!

 

Understood, but I was surprised to read that 'Britannia' was apparently allowed to be the main motive power on its trip the other day. I don't know if the lineside fires in Cheshire were caused by it, of course, but it does seem likely.

It's a fine balance between allowing steam to work and being a figurehead, of course, but conditions have been widely reported to be exceptionally dry, so it seems a significant risk to have allowed 70000 to work hard. Every occurrence of service disruption caused by steam is perhaps another nail in its main line coffin.

 

I applaud your optimism - I hope so. There have been several rather stark examples recently of steam causing issues, and of course those were partly owing to NR's odd decisions regarding fire risk vs. steam's level of effort. Fingers crossed (except when taking photos!).

 

Hot weather doesn't just effect Steam, it affects everything, Line speeds get lowered because of track buckling and units break down, I can remember last summer, I caught a train to Eastbourne from Hastings, and it crawled. all the way, Sparks can also ignite rubbish left trackside, on the way back, all services to Hastings got cancelled, because of lineside fires, and i had to get the bus,

 

I'm sure that I have posted this before, but each NR route can set the level of fire risk applied to its own area. There is however an overview maintained by Network Management (or whatever they are called this week). The West Highland has a separate assessment process which is applied by the local management.
Certainly the hills behind Arisaig were tinder dry yesterday with dying heather which crumpled to dust and sphagnum moss which was dry and fluffy. 2Y61 was diesel hauled today, but that might be for a boiler washout......

Cheers, Neil

PS 2Y68, 1250 ex Fort William was also diesel hauled. (57315). With the weather forecast being dry for Lochaber for the next week, it seems likely for a steam prohibition to be issued up here.

 

Of course. The interesting thing about the present spell of weather is that it hasn't been hot (apart from a couple of days in the high 20s), but there has been a dearth of steady rain in much of England since early February. This has been accompanied by persistent, drying easterly winds, exacerbating the lack of rain. The very brief and rare punctuations of the dry weather have been of little help as the vegetation quickly dries out again.

 

Agreed.

A really major fire that gets national media coverage caused by a main line steam loco working in the current conditions could well open up a debate as to, 'why are NR still allowing 19th Century based technololgy to run on our 21st Century railway'.

That could see those in 'power' who know little/nothing about the main line steam industry joining in the debate very much to the detriment of future steam operations on the mainline.

So real caution on the 'fail safe' principle is essential at present IMHO.

And if 70000 working hard (one superb phot on Nat Pres does suggest it may have been working quite hard) did start the fire that has been mentioned here, then I hope there has already been a review of the level of fire risk to impose for each train by NR. And to make sure it is followed. That could lead to steam (possibly including the 'so called' 70000 fire) being blamed for a fire starting on the lineside by such as a glass bottle or similar having been the real reason.

Sadly it could all mean tough days ahead for the main line steam industry unless we get a decent break in the weather soon.

Bryan

 

The question of lineside fires caused quite a debate on the Southern Region in the early 2000's. On days without steam traction moving there were still lineside fires caused by broken bottles (another argument against opening windows), arcing from pick up shoes, debris from smokers and overheated or leaking traction supply cables. Steam traction has less to hide behind nowadays with no opening windows on most rolling stock, smoking banned on stations and newer rolling stock which is less inclined to arc badly and water based de-icing fluid not leaving oily deposits on the 3rd rail.

Definitely a time to be careful and to prove that the loco owner and TOC are being careful.

Cheers, Neil

 

Does anyone know the current fire risk assessment for Kent? I’m thinking of Wednesday’s Golden Arrow

 

Ambers and Reds everywhere. More reds than ambers

 

I get the point you are making but just to point out this has not been the case here (S Devon), the dry spell only started in March, February rainfall was over 100% of normal and this followed the wettest winter in living memory!

 

Midweek 5 day update

Amber nationwide
North West Red with the exception of the first black on Saturday (not that anything is in the region anyway)

 

Isn't the Buxton Express running partly in the NW?