Historic locos

Indeed - essentially a BR standard in all but name, but a third of a century earlier. Had things worked out slightly differently for the REC in World War 1, the N may have been the prototype for a set of national standard locos. It always struck me as sad on the MHR that of all the 2-6-0s available, it was the most significant of the lot that suffered the ignominy of being dressed up as a slightly sad "James the red engine".

Not quite up there, but still interesting - I'd put U class 1806, as the last surviving K class rebuild: it tells an interesting story about how the railway companies were able to react to disaster and changing circumstances in a pragmatic and cost-effective and flexible way.

Tom

 

I think Anthony has trumped us all: can we have a competition for "second most significant ...

Amongst 19th century locos, I'd put in a case for Stirling O1 no. 65 - albeit with a newer boiler and cab, but effectively the last remaining South Eastern Railway loco, and the last James Stirling loco.

Tom

 

31874 gets my vote too. The N Class was arguably the first 'modern' steam loco design in the UK, and it's difficult to think of anything that improved significantly on it afterwards.

The Gresley K2 was a modern outside 2-cyl design with outside Walschaerts valve gear and designed two years earlier than the N. In what way was the N more modern?

 

Belpaire firebox too, which effectively was also part of the template of pretty much all later "modern" locos on the SR, GWR, LMS and BR.

I think the other significant point was the high degree of interchangbility of parts between different classes (K / U / N / W), all of which pre-figured the design ideals of the BR standards. Plus the fact that the N emerged from a design process that was trying to make a national standard engine, rather than a company-specific engine. Taken together, as a loco and as a concept, it was ahead of its time. I'm not an LNER afficionado, but I don't think you could claim all that for the K2 (and in any case, this is a thread for extant locos!)

Tom

 

good point well made

 

Found and ordered; many thanks.

 

Sorry I should have expanded my post.
02 W24 as it is the only remaining example.

 

NBR C No' 673 'Maude' - built 1891, served in France during World War I, and then withdrawn from service in 1966 after 75 years pre-preservation service.

The J36 was also the last class of steam locomotive to work in Scotland - with classmates finally being withdrawn on 5th June 1967 at the end of Scottish steam.

 

I don't think that alone is sufficient reason to give historic significance. It also applies to the Stroudley E1 on the IoWSR - so why suggest Calbourne rather than Burgundy?

On the Bluebell it applies to the SECR H, C, O1, LBSCR E4, GWR Dukedog, LSWR Radial tank, the North London Railway tank, the Fletcher Jennings tank etc. All are interesting locos, but clearly there are many engines in the country whose main historical significance is that they are unique survivors of their type. Despite being generally a fan of the LBSCR and LSWR, I'd probably argue out of that lot that the O1 is the most historically significant - others may vary!

Tom

 

Cecil Raikes in the CARE (?) of Liverpool Museums

 

The complications and cost of a Belpaire firebox are exactly what you do not want in a "modern" locomotive. Ditto a tapered boiler. The Dia 100 family of boilers were very successful and are seen as the blueprint for production in welded form in order to maintain cost effective preserved steam traction into the future. So it could be argued that the N was leading in some respects to a dead end.

The LNE did develop a range of standard components and some classes are a synthesis of these. The problem with standardisation is that you can reach the stage where you are stuck with a large number of engines that need to be replaced but the commitment to using a fixed range of parts means that you are in effect stuck with a large number of machines that you cannot afford to either replace or significantly improve. And the locomotive as a breed constantly needs to improve. To do this you need new designs using and these can use some parts from the previous generation but they need a significant number of new ones. N to Bulleid Pacific anybody? Further why invest in a national standard engine when it is not going to be as effective for your company as one of your own designs, particularly if you are a designer looking forward and seeing much potential and ever increasing traffic requirements?

Back to the real subject. The answer to the question raised must surely be the oldest survivor that had a successful working life. Anything after this is simply a development of the theme.

 

48773/8233, an example of a succesful design that not only worked in this country but in various countrys overseas. An example of Standardisaton (Boiler,Wheels, and would tender count?) Also how many other locos have had so many different identitys? 8233, 41.109 in Persia, 70307 in Egypt, WD500, 90733(!) then finally 48773 also usual stuff abou an example surviving til end of steam. And finally it carries damage from a camel derailment! Would that do?

 

Yes, care - it is dry and undercover. If someone were to approach Liverpool Museums with a serious proposal...

 

My nomination would be the Ffestiniog's Princess. The world's first 2' gauge loco - the first in a VERY long line!

 

On another NG theme, how about a NG/G16, particularly one from the 1958 batch built at Gorton.

 

Most of the L&Y survivors are outside the national collection and all would be worthy of a place there.

 

I think we're done here.!

 

Before it belatedly joined the National Collection, I would have said 4472.

First loco built by LNER.
First to top 100 mph - and have the piece of paper to prove it.
Named after the famous train.
Pulled the non-stop London - Edinburgh
Shown at a number of exhibitions.
Circumnavigated the globe
Longest non-stop journey by steam locomotive
Usually a lovely shade of green.

But that is all irrelevant now that it is in the National Collection.

 

71000 Duke of Gloucester... at the moment, possibly 'Lady of Legend' when finished