Hydrogen Motive Power

Following on from the 'Class 321' thread, a recent announcement by Eversholt Rail concerns putative production of "Class 600" H2 powered stock. On the plus side, it's pleasing to note that the location earmarked to become "UK Hydrogen Central" is (..... drum roll .....) Widnes, though I note the absence of any mention of the words 'export markets' .... which may be tied in with the firm's collaboration with Alstom (mentioned in the url below).

If it's the case that home production will concentrate on UK loading gauge stock (and there'll be a lot of that, as ICE kit goes dodo-wise into oblivion), that may still leave CIÉ/NIR as a potential market for UK produced kit. This may strike some as premature (and they may even be right!), but clean tech is going to be massive over coming decades ..... and UKPlc could do much worse than casting an eye to the future from 'Day One'.

https://eversholtrail.co.uk/news/ev...1-million-in-breeze-hydrogen-train-programme/

 

What about



A poo train?

 

They'd better not try hydrogen on the Voyagers then.

 

Alstom are leaders with the Coradia iLint hydrogen powered train in Germany. But the train is too high to work in the UK. So the technology is being installed in Eversholt's converted class 321 trains to become class 600 Breeze trains.
However rival Portersbrook and Birmingham Uni are making headway with their class 319 conversion to class 799 Hydroflex train and from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-y8787303/amp/Hydrogen-powered-train-run-mainline-time-TODAY.html
and will be first to run a hydrogen powered train on the UK mainline North Cotswold line from Oxford to Hereford.
If all goes well the class 600 will also get a mainline test soon.

From the Daily Mail Transport Secretary Grant Shapps hopes hydrogen trains will start taking paying passengers in 2023 and replace Diesel in 2040.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-54350046

 

From the US a test with a switcher (shunter) loco.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/2...el-killing-hydrogen-locomotive-in-california/

 

"Currently, only 4% of UK production of hydrogen is the ‘blue’ variety produced by electrolysis, let alone true ‘green’ hydrogen from renewable electricity. The bulk of hydrogen (Brown Hydrogen) is produced by Steam Methane Reforming (SMR), which releases CO2." (Roger Ford)

Patrick

 

For hydrogen to become a mainstream sustainable source of traction energy, both the supply side, generating the hydrogen sustainably, and the consumption side, using it to power locomotives and multiple units, need development. Both parts can and should be done in parallel. It would be silly to wait until the generation has been fully sorted out before working on the utilisation.

 

Hydrogen is a shocking waste of electricity (approx 3 times as much as needed to move the same train using Overhead Line Equipment, I believe). OK, if it's for a small fleet or a low-density traffic niche, but the saving in electric consumption when using OLE should be a factor in deciding which way to go. UK plc is not going to be flush with surplus generating capacity, after all.
Pat
Edited 13.49 as underlined.

 

I wouldn't disagree, but the promise of it is being used instead of electrification. Wiring of the core is still the key, and the government is ducking it. The promise of hydrogen is part of its cover. The Government's most recent paper quoted hydrogen 50 times and electrification 2, both for road transport.

I also feel that for long, remote lines (think Central Wales and North of Scotland) the CO2 in (bio)diesel-battery hybrids is relatively so small as to be manageable by offset.

A massive increase in renewable and CO2 free energy generation is necessary, and (back on thread) development of off-peak production of hydrogen seems sensible.

Patrick

 

Whilst agreeing with most of Patrick's (@D1039) post, the one absolute no-no has to be bio-diesel (certainly unless some stop-gap (only) means of producing same from marine algae is proven). The reason is actually glaringly obvious .... land usage. If growing crop for a hydrocarbon fuel industry, merely seeking to delay it's own oblivion, obviously the same land can't then be producing food.

Over the longer term, I'd expect the economics of the whole issue to supervene, in strong favour of electrification, but in the meantime, there's disquieting scope for a mammoth politically driven wrong turn here. Keeping the present day oil barons in clover, at the expense of the rest of the human race and the planet's biosphere generally, ain't any sort of good reason to derail the journey to clean tech.

 

A mammoth driven railway has possible green credentials. If we had any mammoths.......

 

This has been raised quite a few times but this item from "The Engineer" is one of the clearest.

Cheers, Neil

 

I would have thought that the diesel needed to run the remaining non electrified minor lines (Cambrian, Looe etc) would be minimal

 

It would. They aren’t to hand right now, but one Voyager from Edinburgh to Birmingham emits more CO2 than the entire Far North Line in a day.


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This seems to give a pretty good overview:

Rail decarbonisation update | Rail Engineer

Jon

 

"DMUs on these Scotrail [Far North and Kyle] services generate just over seven tonnes of CO2 a day...A Voyager making an Edinburgh to Plymouth return journey emits just over 10 tonnes of CO2."

Patrick

 

Which could almost certainly be reduced if we were to reduce the performance a bit - and indeed reduce the speed and acceleration of all transport.

 

Debatable how much, though - the Voyager engines are more than twice the power of the Sprinter engines, and there are 4 or 5 of them under each set.


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I think worrying about rail CO2 emissions is misplaced at this time. The focus should be on aircraft emissions, both cargo and passenger.

BTW a Maersk Line Triple E is of similar size to the Ever Given.

CO2 emissions by mode of transportation CO2 g/ km
Airplane (air cargo) 560 g
Modern lorry or truck 45 g
Modern train 18 g
Modern ship (Maersk Line, Triple E) 3 g

https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/files/158911010/Working_Paper_4_Emissions_from_Shipping.pdf