Mainline Steam Operators

Just wondering what the future holds for mainline steam in terms of operators. We once had three Merlin, WCRC and EWS. We now have a majority by WCRC and a small amount by DBS. At some point in the near future there could well be a WCRC monpoly if DBS don't train some people. Is this a good thing do you think, and what is the possibility of another operator coming in to play?

Thoughts?

cheerio

Mike

 

One thinks that a WCRC Monopoly would lead not be good

 

In a sense, WCRC already have a monopoly where vac-only mainline-registered National Collection locomotives are concerned, as the last I heard, DBS (as a result of EWS' policy) will only operate air brake fitted locomotives. I doubt this policy will change any time soon.

 

As you say DBS (EWS) will only operate air brake trains, and that came into force around 2003. At that time we had been placing work with both EWS and WCR but we decided to put all of our work with WCR at the beginning of 2003 and consequently we have been dealing with one supplier for almost 9 years now. During that time the apparent lack of choice has not caused us the least concern. The prices are keen, the crews are good, what more can you want? Also the growth of business has provided WCR with a massive growth in knowledge and competence in dealing with the unique engineering and operating issues encountered with steam, and I have no doubt in my mind that no other organisation can now compare with the collective knowledge and abilities within the WCR organisation for dealing with steam operations.

There are no doubt one or two owners who might experience very considerable difficulties due to the relationships that they have developed with WCR, but that is life!

I cannot see how a new operator could pull together the skills and the knowledge, or indeed the volume of business to set up and operate a company without making vast losses.

Regards
Bob

 

What about a certain A1 pacific? Which I saw this evening.

 

Whilst WCRC is undoubtedly a business (and presumably profitable), with David Smith at the helm it is undoubtedly run by an enthusiast and will arguably provide an operation that is more in tune with the railway enthusiast, even if some of his policies are not to everyone's liking.

 

EWS actually went to the trouble of training a number of guys in the late 90's, but then seem to have allowed it to ebb away. Suspect it has been very hard for them to compete with zero hours men on cost. WC do a fantastic job with a number of experienced men, but on the driving side at least that can't last forever surely? They would have the advantage though, of passing that on if they did start training the next generation of drivers. On the firemans side they have gained considerably I think, from using support crew members in terms of cost and performance.

There is a vast amount of steam experience on the preserved railways of the UK that a new Mainline Operator could draw on for training I suppose, but as Bob says it would be very expensive. Don't think it would be a 3 day traction conversion course for mainline diesel men!

 

Thanks for your response, Bob; words from the cutting edge should be what this forum is all about. I'm not complaining about WCRC's apparent monopoly, having enjoyed many trips as a result of their expertise, including two with Vintage Trains (Looe Branch and Doric Olympian). However, the problem with a monopoly is what'll happen if the company that controls that monopoly disappears? We cannot be certain about the future as much as we'd like to be. This is by no means a dig at the sterling work undertaken by WCRC, but a case of 'thinking out loud' in terms of a worst case scenario. I hope I am not misunderstood in this respect.

 

There's been rumours down the years that Direct Rail Services would be interested in getting inot the steam market. To date they haven't taken the plunge but they do act as TOC for some diesel charters, believe, so perhaps have chsen to gain some experience that way first.

 

West Coast certainly have the experience of running steam charters and most tour operators would i imagine stick with what they know DBS now only do a few charters compared with West Coast so why would anyone planning to operate a steam charter want to try another company outside of the 2 that currently have the safety case for steam .

In the future providing crews could be a problem , but as you see support crew firemen, i would expect that you could see some loco owners or groups have a nominated driver who is hired by the company by the day to drive , i dont know how it would work , but im sure that in a lot of cases there are people who have the skill from driving on preserved lines who could be passed out for several routes and have fired on these routes also, so would know the road so all the company would need is an traction inspector , the rest of the crew being provided by the loco support crew the advantage is that you have people who know their engine so there is less liklyhood of it being unduly thrashed , after all if Alister Meanley was driving one of his halls on the mainline you can bet he wouldnt do anything to cause himself more work in the workshop afterwards having to repair it

 

My problem with WCRC is the physical condition of some of their stock. The Green Set used for Cathex, in particular, is disgusting.

 

I agree Ralph the present system does work very well. The majority of the railwaymen in the country wouldn't agree though. WC are extremely unpopular with the Unions for example, for obvious reasons.

What would the steam movement do though in the unlikely event of WC not being around? I certainly hope they will be around for many years to come.

As far as Martins previous point goes, we have a railway in the UK that isn't even capable of putting Saturday extras on never mind allowing privateers out on the mainline. The red tape, paperwork and hoops on our railway have reached epic proportions.

 

I'm not knocking WCR, they do indeed do a fantastic job but having only one major player in an industry is never a good thing. What happens if, and I'm not saying it is going to happen, WCR decide to limit the number of rail tours that they run due to the fines imposed for delays, DBS wont pick them all up, look how many runs Tornado has missed out on. Flexibility is the key and it is not always good policy for a company to be supplied by a single source. Look at Clan Line, its most often referred to as a DBS loco but it is on the books of WCR and was indeed run by them last Deccember.

Perhaps Mr Hoskins will become the next David Smith and start up his own TOC, he certainly has a fine fleet of mainliners but I have no idea where the crews would come from.

 

That would certainly seem a way forward. What is the position with support crews at the moment, are there plenty of volunteers and more importantly younger volunteers interested?

Dave

 

Oh dear - time to wheel that horse out again - SLOA C21 to anticipate and address problems both as regards today's operations and how to sustain in them into the future.

It will have to happen - you wait and see!

 

Isn't it called JIBD and not SLOA these days. ie. Jeremey Ian Bob and David Oligopoly of the loco operators/owners.

Seriously though does SLOA still exist?

 

I'm sure Brell, Mark, Tom and Steve would have something to say about that.

 

Overall I think that a monopoly of one company is not such a great idea and that another company should definitely come into the market. I also agree with the policy of DBS that charter trains should be air fitted. I know we are in a world of preservation but at times we need to mix it up with modernization and hence the need for mainline stock to be air fitted in my opinion. In the comment about the state of coaching stock I have seen some wonderful stock by WCRC but I do have to agree the Green Cathex stock does look as if it needs some TLC but at the same time so does some other coaches operated by DBS.