NYMR Timetables Question

Hello everyone.

I was just looking at the NYMR timetables and am struggling to work out how they work. Looking at the loco rosters for today on the NYMR site and the unofficial diesel site, I can't fathom how the Whitby - Grosmont trains fit in. Do passengers from Pickering to Whitby change at Grosmont? And with only 30926 as far as I am aware the only loco permitted to run to Whitby, how can the NYMR run so many trains? Please be kind to me as I last visited the line in 1999 when I was six, and a lot might have changed since then! :noidea:

Hopefully someone can give me the solution! :smile:

 

I'm sure 45428 is also permitted to run on the mainline to Whitby, as well as 76079

I'm off there soon as well for the first time, so this thread will also be a help for me

Lewis

 

You may end up wishing you had asked some-one to explain Einstein's theory of relativity as being simpler, but here goes!

Firstly, it is normally the case that Whitby trains work straight through Grosmont and passengers do not change there unless things are running out of course. There are two sets of ordinary passenger coaches passed for the branch, plus various spares and the Pullman set.

When there is just one Whitby loco, this basically works all trains between Grosmont and Whitby and probably not south of Goathland, certainly on the Green and Red timetables.

On the Red timetable, the 10:00 and 14:00 and 12:30 and 15:30 from Grosmont are booked as the Class 101 DMU but this has been out of traffic for repairs and this train has been a diesel hauled short train for the past few weeks.

What will be happening today, for example, will probably be:

09:00 ex Pickering - diesel to Grosmont, change to steam loco at Grosmont.
10:00 ex Pickering - Should be DMU, likely to be other diesel (31 128 and D5061 listed for today - 31 128 will probably be on 09:00 as this is mainline approved and hence gets to Grosmont to act as standby loco)
11:00 ex Pickering - steam - today almost certainly Q6 no.63395.

10:30 ex-Grosmont - if there is a 2nd Whitby loco, then this loco will be on this train and will continue through to Whitby on the 12:00 ex Pickering.

Today, assuming both okay on their Fitness to Run, we have both 30926 and 45428 as Whitby locos, 45428 completing its paperwork and making its first run to Whitby in over 45 years last Monday.

This means that either 30926 or 45428 will work the 10:30 ex Grosmont/12:00 ex Pickering/14:00 ex Whitby and 16:00 ex Pickering, with the other Whitby loco working the 10:10 (09:00 ex Pickering) from Grosmont to Whitby, 11:00 ex Whitby, 13:00 ex Pickering, 15:10 Grosmont to Goathland, 16:10 Goathland to Whitby and 17:30 Whitby to Grosmont, swapping to another loco (probably 63395 unless swapped) at Grosmont to continue to Pickering.

This should leave a diesel on the DMU turn as detailed above, and 63395 doing 11:00 ex Pickering, 13:30 ex Grosmont, 15:00 ex Pickering and 18:00 ex Grosmont and the diesel from the 09:00 working the 16:30 from Grosmont to Pickering.

At the moment, only 30926 and 45428 are available for the branch (plus 31 128) with 76079 under repair but hopefully back soon. We did achieve much of the peak season last summer with just 825 and 75029 available last year and those 2 and 61994 the year before.

I hope that explains it but fear it could be as clear as thick mud! Just imagine what it is like to diagram for crews!

Steven

 

Thanks for that info mate

One more question, with a gold timetable, are all the services steam hauled according to engine availability?

Cheers,
Lewis

 

The answer is yes, as you say, subject to availaibility.

To cover Gold needs at least 4 and preferably 5 steam locos. An alternative is 4 steam and a diesel on the 09:00 ex Pickering and 16:30 ex Grosmont (I think - haven't worked that right through!!)

Steven

 

Steven,

Thanks for your interesting details about rostering locos on the NYMR. I like such things. My calculation is, that the gold timetable can be operated with four steam locos one of which will do all the trains to Whitby but with plenty of changing locos at Grosmont unless the 09:00 from Pickering has a loco capable of runnning to Whitby.

Looking at the green timetable I thought it was a bit of a waste of resources to use five locos (or four and a DMU) on it but using a diesel for the 09:00 ex Pickering allows a later start for the steam crews.

For those who like puzzles we can make this a mystery: What is the most catastrophic situation which might just allow the timetable to be run without any cancellations? I came up with three locos only one of which is cleared for Whitby and a DMU. But a failure in the morning at Pickering when there is no spare there must be difficult...

Regards

Christoph

 

Thank you everyone for posting this as I think I now understand what runs! I am visiting the NYMR on Friday and I was just wondering if the 9am from Pickering to Whitby will be steam hauled all the way or just half the way? Many thanks in advance!

 

Steven certainly makes it sound complicated and it can be at times! However, when things are running smoothly, loco diagramming is fairly straightforward. With the gold T/T it is fairly simple really. Two locos start the day at Pickering and two locos start at Grosmont. The intention is that these are all steam. The 09.00 train ex Pickering runs straight through to Whitby. However, due to 'rules' which require the loco to have a Fitness to Run Exam each time it is put into steam and which, at the moment, can only sensibly be done at Grosmont, the loco on this train cannot do so and so locos are changed at Grosmont, with a Whitby approved loco coming on there. From that point, there are various possible permutations depending on circumstances but the general plan is, as follows:

Pick loco 1 works: 09.00 ex Pick(to Gros) - 10.30 ex Gros - 12.00 ex Pick - 13.30 ex Gros - 15.00 ex Pick - 18.00 ex Whit (from Gros) 108 miles
Pick loco 2 works: 10.00 ex Pick - 11.00 ex Whit (from Gros) - 13.00 ex Pick - 16.30 ex Gros 72 miles
Gros loco 1 works 9.30 ex Gros - 11.00 ex Pick - 12.30 ex Gros - 14.00 ex Pick - 15.30 ex Gros - 17.00 ex Pick 108 miles
Gros loco 2 (the Whitby loco) works: 09.00 ex Pick (from Gros) 11.00 ex Whit (to Gros) - 12.00 ex Pick (from Gros) - 14.00 ex Whit - 16.00 ex Pick - 18.00 ex Whit (to Gros) 72 miles

Besides the restriction on locos going to Whitby, there are other restrictions, such as certain locos not being able to work from Pickering and the need to ensure that, if the usual 7 coach set is strengthened, the loco is sufficiently powerful. Locos are also often swapped at Grosmont if minor maintenance is required that may require them to miss a trip. Then the suitability of tank locos has to be considered as they have limited coal and water and cannot just do any diagram. However, at present this latter doesn't come into play as we have none operational. As well as locos, crewing arrangements have to be considered as not everyone can go to Whitby. Pickering based locos also have to be given time during the day to visit Grosmont MPD for an FTR and servicing and, if anything untoward is found, a substitute provided. You'll perhaps see from the foregoing why it is often difficult to answer the question as to which loco will be on which train on any particular day!

If you are around on friday (6th) come and say hello. I will be driving the Pickering 2 loco. Well that's the plan at the moment, anyway!

 

Thank you very much Steve! The plan at the moment is to take the 10am from Pickering and travel to Whitby later in the day so may see you Friday!

 

That's supposed to be the simple version, is it Steve?!

Meant to be all steam on Gold but occasionally have to switch to diesel from Pickering to Grosmont on 09:00 to match to available crews (there are some drivers are diesel only and sometimes only they are available for some turns - it is currently 6 crews per day including Station Pilot, 7 on Friday as there is an evening diner).

The current plan is that it is steam Thursday but too early for sure for Friday. Roster looks okay as things currently stand.

Steven

 

Well, I left out the crew rosters, along with those for the guards and the train set diagrams. That's when it gets really complicated; playing musical engines, find the guard and shunt the set!!!