Remote control steam locomotives

My Grandad and I were having a discussion a while ago about whether it would be possible to retrofit a steam loco so it could be remote controlled. Would it be possible? Obviously we'll ignore money, but could it physically be done? There are already automatic stokers, I'm sure with heat sensors and the like it could be more sophisticated detecting where the coal needs to go, all the levers can have a motors etc. (A pretty hefty one for some things) gauges can all be digitalised, cameras to detect signals, or if on mainline probably some sort of feed? I'm not very knowledgeable so can't come up with many of the conceivable difficulties.

We've seen it done with cars, so why not steam locos? Go on, tell us how stupid we are!

 

Just as a technical exercise, maybe shortage of crews?

 

Hornby have done it...

 

A good number of years ago I was asked this question by a Consultant who was tasked with looking at this for a proposed 'attraction' in the south. The one answer that we couldn't come up with was the reliable monitoring and control of boiler water level. Auto controls are in widespread use on industrial boilers but they are firmly fixed to terra firma and don't accelerate, decelerate and go up and down gradients. Anyone who has been a member of a footplate crew will know that ensuring the right boiler level for the current conditions is one of experience and judgement and not finite measurement.
The 'attraction' came into existence but the train ride never did.

 

i dont think it could be done, how would you control water level when braking, the number of sensors needed would make it imposible as the level can jump from full to nearly empty, depending on how hard you have to brake, then theres the regulator and cut off settings, wheel slip indicators, back up systems so you dont drop a plug then a manual back up because the last thing you want is a mechanical breakdown and no one who knows how to work an injector, or to drop the fire to protect the boiler. it may work on an internal combustion engine but i cant see how it can work on a steam engine without at least 1 member of crew on board

 

An accelerometer as found in a smartphone can do a lot of the calculations of acceleration, gradient, braking etc.

 

Point of Order, are you talking remote control (and presumably remote monitoring), or an automatic 'driverless' capability?

Remote control is entirely possible, you can buy remote control Roundhouse garden railway locos off the shelf today. Remote monitoring is also entirely possible as all gauges in a loco cab could be replaced by a sensor that transmits the information elsewhere. This could all go to a remote control centre somewhere and be supervised by a person there. Oil or gas firing would make that side of things much easier.

Automatic operation, with a computer controlling things would be far more difficult, but again you could remote monitor everything and then compare it to a typical run, constantly measuring variance from a benchmark. So at mile X you know the boiler water should be 75% full, and pumps would be started if it fell below 70%. You would predict what the gauges should read at any given point and react if they show something different.

Having said all that, people will still give their time to drive these for free (including me), so please do not make us obsolete! I can't see the point myself...

 

Wasn't a WD 0-6-0 fitted with some sort of remote control by the Army? Have a feeling it was in the late sixties, so I think it has been done.

 

And didn't one of the septic roads (Norfolk & Western?) do something a bit like this?

 

Sure push-pull trains had remotely-controlled locos, insofar as the driver was at the opposite end of the train from the loco. Fair enough he didn't have total control, and there still had to be a fireman on the footplate, but in strict literal terms, the loco was under remote control.


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According to a book about the LBSCR, when they ran a Brighton-Worthing shuttle with a D class 0-4-2T between two driving trailers, it was quite common for the regulator linkage to be disconnected, the fireman being in complete control of the locomotive, the driver communicating via bell codes (of which three rings meant "There's an inspector on the platform ahead, look sharp and hook up the linkage fast!".

 

I am not of the opinion that steam and water are not compatible with electricity.

 

I'm sure it could all be suitably protected?

 

Need it even be done electrically? I'd have thought electropneumatic safer, keeping the first half well away from the wet stuff...

 

And keep wet stuff out of the second bit too

 

True! Electro-hydraulic? Electro-steam via a pneumatic relay?

 

Wanna bet?