BR 9F 92214

Possibly, but is that such a bad thing? <BJ>

 

Can't do that. It would be masquerading as another loco and that's just not on.

 

I don't mind the change. If I had the cash this is the 9f to buy

given the team that did the overhaul and the boiler smith who was involved.

 

I'm going to bring this back to the top now because an employee asked me today if I'm going to the GCR next week to see Evening Star. He's a casual spotter who knows a thing or 2. He saw every Britannia in action, remembers very well 25 plus 9F's based at Eastfield yard, has ridden many of the preserved railways over the years, and he was lead to believe from some advertising that he had either received or read in the mags he gets that Evening Star, 92220 would be running on the GCR next week. This is exactly the point being made, and it is wrong.

Now I love the GCR, have already been there twice this year, for the Gala and the vintage country fair 2 weeks ago which were both fantastic, but I still believe that this is all a bit underhand and it saddens me that a loco is being passed off as something that it isn't for financial gain.

 

Should they just not bother re numbering it then, and lose out on extra revenue to progress their projects? Every preserved railway in the country has to do things they don't want to (as enthusiasts) but have to do, to ensure their hobby can go on. Not everyone enjoys doing Thomas and family orientated events events and such like, but these event bring in so much cash that you can't risk not doing them.

Just by changing 3 numberplates on a loco gives the GCR's gala something different, saving on transport costs getting in something different - A potential of 5k or more in their pockets rather than Moveright or Allelys. And the railway are getting 2 days of Photo charters out of doing it. Extra steaming fees for the locos owner to pay for overhauls with, and extra money into the railways pocket.

 

But you could say there following history! Wasnt Royal Scot and Duchess of Hamilton both sent to the USA in a fakery for financial gain?

 

The LMS wasn't a national museum?

I have to say I'm not very comfortable with this. I can go along with temporarily recreating a long lost member of a class for a photo-shoot or for a special event, or giving a previously unnamed loco a name, but it seems to be going a bit far to do so when 92220 (I suppose it IS 92220 - there were rumours about that way back!) is in the NRM.

 

But the GCR isnt a national museum either. To be honest a lot more outside of the box thinking IS needed on railways to get the money coming in.

 

It was done fairly often back in the day. If such and such a name was needed for a special duty but the loco in question was not available then the plates were swapped. On at least one recorded occasion they weren't swapped back...

 

I don't see what the problem is and I'm more than a little perplexed by the arguments against. They seem to have the NRM's blessing to do this and it would produce an authentic portrayal of Evening Star for a period, when the original isn't likely to return to steam any time soon.

Very few people below the age of 30 have seen the original steam - in fact I'm 27 and she had been long withdrawn again by the time I was born - so what's the problem in being able to experience a BR green 9F masquerading as 92220 so that myself and others like me and younger than me, can have a glimpse of what it was like to see the last steam locomotive built for British Railways in steam?

Is it really that difficult to understand the difference in a portrayal and an outright deception? Because what I'm reading into all of this is that enthusiasts are quite happy to prevent the younger generations from experiencing, or having any glimpse of the past. We see this in every armchair enthusiast who clamours for 4472 to be withdrawn and stuffed, we see this in armchair enthusiasts who bemoan new build projects (having experienced the real thing in action)...and so on and so forth.

Could the wider enthusiast fraternity be a little more open minded and understanding in that respect?

 

I think that's the nub of it. How is the loco being presented? Will a naive onlooker understand what's what or will they believe they're really looking at Evening Star?

 

I think that is what Jimc was hinting at in post #89 above. I am sure the Evening Advertiser was full of such correspondence from 'disgusted of Swindon'.

 

Isn't there a relatively credible rumour that the "original" Evening Star in the national collection is infact an identity swapped loco after Evening Star had a heavy shunt back in the 1960s.... Which would make this whole episode even more complicated!

 

So you're basically absolving the onlooker of reading any documents pertaining to the gala then? Everything has to be spoon fed?

How has it all been advertised - is there a clear motive to deceive? I don't believe there is at all and I'm skeptical that many people would genuinely believe it's the real deal on the basis of the literature available - if they read it at all.

Basically this boils down to a few loud and disgruntled people both wanting to be spoon fed for information and also indirectly wanting anyone who might enjoy such a portrayal from having that experience.

Where were all of these critics when the B1 on the NYMR was masquerading as all number of its scrapped classmates?

Or Bittern as Silver Link, DONZ, etc etc...

 

Its quite simple really at the end of it. Dont like it... dont go. Its only for a short time. Then next gala you go to it will be back as Central Star.

In the point of "re creation" i plan that once 45551 is ready and only "If" we are in steam for sept 2017, it will carry a lot of original names for the period between then and 11.11.18 when it will officially become "The Unknown Warrior". But if course we need the money to do it.... so visit www.lms-patriot.org.uk and donate you can get us closer to steaming and seeing long lost members of the class!

How about a Crewe to Llandudno running as..... Llandudno? Or being Lady Godiva running into Bristol? Or even No17 running on the KWVR? Lets hope people get the chance to see this! As someone again who is under 30 (just), i also never saw any member of the class, so i cant wait to see her running as a different loco for a while.

 

I for one am very angry that "The King's Dragoon Guardsman" is still being passed off as "Royal Scot".

 

Without resurrecting the thread, 'Evening Star' did have front end damage following a shunting accident. I saw her dumped in a siding across the main line from Pontypool Road shed in Summer 1966. I presume that this damage was fixed at Crewe. I saw her in the paint shop after she had been re-painted at Crewe & there was no sign of any damage.

Bob.

 

I was going to add comment but shan't. You either think it's ok and will get a thrill from photographing what looks like 92220, or you don't think it has any value other than financial gain for the railway (which is all good, no one would disagree with that), so long as it is made very clear that it is not the real thing appearing. I only brought it up again because as some suspected would happen, I was asked by someone with a degree of knowledge if I'm going to see Evening Star at GCR next weekend, and he was surprised when I told him it wasn't 92220. People will turn up thinking they're seeing the real thing.

Can I just mention, I will be wearing a Justin Bieber mask, tight jeans and a funky jacket for most of the coming weekend, and am available for photographs for a small contribution ;-)