Isle of Wight Steam Railway Carriage and Wagon updates

I should say that we have a fairly clear objective that is to provide the Isle of Wight Steam Railway with sufficient stock for its services. At the moment I admit we are struggling to keep up with the ravages of the harsh environment that the island coaches have worked in. At present our bogie set comprises of just 4 coaches,
LBSCR 4168 Brake 3rd to all intents and purposes has a new underframe (2009),
LBSCR 2416 3rd has had new headstocks, new top and bottom flitch plates and many areas on the solebars where new steel was required this required the body to be craned off (2014)
LBSCR 6349 composite one headstock and solebar heavily repaired (2015)
LBSCR 2403 3rd is on a donor underframe (from grounded body condition (2013)
We currently have 4145 and 4149 brake 3rd and 6375 composite out of service all requiring new headstocks and solebars. 4149 is our major project at the moment, its underframe will be the first to receive the newly manufactured solebars and headstocks. Its bogies have been under overhaul for a lengthy period as they to require considerable amounts of new steel.
In addition to repairs we have LBSCR brake 3rd 4115 (4-wheel) under restoration and are preparing the next underframe for LCDR brake 3rd 4115 (bogie coach) In addition SECR dropside wagon 62888 is having a new Oak underframe.
So we are rather busy! but that should not stop you looking to the future you should never say never!

 

Firstly, thank you for your prompt reply. I think I should immediately make it clear that it was not my intention to risk diverting any funds from the major C&W challenges you have outlined, in particular the 'Chatham' fund: rather, if any such 'search and rescue mission' were to be undertaken, its achievement would have to be financed separately (in the way that 2403 was acquired).

Which, with regard to 2403, brings up an interesting point: presumably that project would have been described as 'wishful thinking' in some quarters at the time of its rescue – and yet now the carriage has provided and will provide vital capacity, at a time when it is really needed. It is worth considering what the operational situation would have been without it.

My personal view is that:

• The railway must continue to use heritage stock for all trains – as has been the case since 1971 – not least because this is probably its principal USP; consequently...
  
  
• … even putting aside the historical remit, I suggest there is a strategic imperative to have a significant reserve of grounded bodies available to allow for the greatest degree of operational flexibility in the future. (In this context I am thinking of possible extensions, as well as contingency for the unexpected, such as the SECR underframe situation, etc.)

Perhaps there are no such carriages that would qualify, other than those ex-IoW examples already identified. Perhaps there are, but they are 'safe' and are likely to be extant in 5 years' time and someone can think of doing something then. It seems to me, though, that the answers to these questions are not yet known and, like with everything else, it is essential that any decisions made are informed ones – hence the reason for my initial questions.


Meanwhile, PH: I guess that's a 'no', then...

 

re 0395's posts and gary's very comprehensive reply,

it may be worth adding that instead of acquiring non-IW carriages as suggested by 0395, there are quite a few ex IW carriages the IOWSR hopes to acquire and restore to use that have remained on the IW, namely the LSWR composite, and LBSCR Billinton saloon 7996, both discussed in some detail earlier in this thread.

7996 is rather special, and like the restored (ex-grounded at Newtown and thatched) 6369, appears to be in very good condition.

(the ex IWR Metropolitan carriage bodies at St Helens Duver unfortunately are no where in the same good condition as 7996, or 6369 before restoration).

this as i understand it the 'current' wish list, and there may be others as well.

it seems to me that the team at Havenstreet have quite enough on their plate at the moment with the work required to the chassis's of the SECR bogies, and finishing LBSCR 4115, keeping the current fleet in excellent condition, and restoring LCDR 4115, and restoring LBSCR 7996 when it arrives.

cheers,
julian

 

We couldn't find an available bulb flat that had the correct combination of bulb size and flat thickness. Current bulb flat has much bigger bulb relative to the flat size.
We needed bulb angle 9" x 3½" with a thickness of 5/8" and a bulb thickness of 1½" (including the plate thickness of 5/8")
Rolling was not economic, so ours has been hot extruded in Germany using a die made for us.
What sections did you combine to make your solebars?

Can't remember the details as I was only peripherally involved, but our material is for an LNER underframe and I think the sections are slightly heavier, otherwise we'd have gone in with you. I think it was necessary to machine one of the two components slightly though. I'll see if I can dig out the info. Either way, it's not cheap, but in our case it was a relatively economical way of producing just the two lengths we needed.

 

The general aim is to provide coaches for the future baring in mind that we have to provide for the distinct possibility of operating to Ryde St John's.

One aim is to eventually provide sufficient coaches to be able to form a second bogie set. The coaches and bodies at present on site would give 5 brake 3rds, 3 full 3rds and 2 composites made up of LBSCR, SECR and LCDR stock. Spit into 2 sets we could have an Edwardian bogie set and a Victorian set.

The current 6 coach 4 wheel set will be added to with 2 brake 3rds, a composite and a saloon. That would give a more flexible formation.

A second 4 wheelset can be created by the restoration of the 6 Oldbury coaches although the fact that we do not have a brake could lead to one or two new builds.

All of the can be achieved eventually by using the vehicles that we currently have on site with the addition of the Brighton Saloon, but will take a good many years. Anything over and above this would be a bonus.

 

Will you be doing new underframes using the die you have for some of these 4 wheel coaches, at a later date due to the lack of suitable underframes from donor coaches.

 

The Oldbury's will all be on new build underframes. We have sufficient PMVs for the other 4 wheelers.

 

The odd thing about this pair of four wheelers is that being sold out of railway service has enabled both to outlive their bogie successors. 7996 is specifically mentioned by A.B. Macleod when recounting a rather rough (in more senses than one) trip accompanying a senior officer and the latter's wife between Yarmouth and Ryde.

It is very rare to be able to identify specific items of coaching stock in old general photographs but there are pictures of W 8 and W 11 heading 6369 and its "partner" 4112 on Ventnor West services eighty years ago. Similar pairings can be experienced regularly nowadays.

PH

 

What are the issues likily to be with new underframes? for instance does that include axles and axle boxes, and what about manufactoring methods, most modern stuff is roller bearing, so you would have to commission patterns etc, is there scope to reduce the cost by involving other railways, or is it envisaged to use reclaimed axleboxes from scrapped wagons from elsewhere?

 

Most likely will be reclaimed wheelsets and axleboxes.

 

Is the plan to stock pile suitable wheel sets and boxes when they come availible so that you have enough to do the 6 coaches, or to try and find wheel sets as you need them? i can see the sence in making 3 or 4 underframes before hand so that once you start on the Ashby rake you have underframes ready

 

I take it that you are referring to the Oldbury's? We have some wheelsets but I am sure that more will be required.

 

sorry Gary, yes,

 

The Isle of Wight Steam Railway is now able to take online donations for the Chatham Carriages and Ryde Pier Tram Appeals through the website. Please follow this link if you would like to make a donation or learn more

http://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/make-a-donation.aspx

 

The May C&W update has just been published on the IWSR web site.

The most significant development is hidden away in the news item covering the rebuild of two SECR bogies. The new steel to be used in the underframe refurbishment of our three SECR bogie coaches has now arrived at Havenstreet. It took a long while to source steel of the correct 'bulb' section but, at last, the Chatham Underframes Project can move forward. SECR Brake Third 4149 will be the first of the three to receive attention. The work to replace the solebars and the headstocks will be completed by a contractor, the job will be going out to tender shortly.

 

Quick request - anyone know what is running tomorrow (7 June) - loco and carriages? Coming over for a quick visit en famille, so just curious - ferry tickets are already booked anyway!

Tom

 

W24 was in use today but that is no guarantee that it will be tomorrow, the coaching set will be the 4 LBSCR bogies. Ask for me in the Carriage and Wagon and would be pleased to show you behind the scenes.

 

Hi Tom

Calbourne was running today on a special and nothing else was warming up, so my guess (but only a guess) is that it will be Calbourne + the Brighton bogie set.

 

Thanks both! Always nice to see Calbourne up close, and I've not seen the latest Brighton coach either, nor Train Story - long awaited catch up!

Gary - thanks for the offer, I'll see if I can take you up, though it may be slightly child-dependent....

Tom

 

A few piccies from today - should really be in the rolling stock thread!

Had a lovely day, with not enough time - Calbourne was doing its stuff quietly and efficiently. Was good to see round Train Story as well - wow, what a facility! I can only imagine the long-term benefit that getting so much rolling stock under cover will prove. It's the first time I've seen "Burgundy" as well - in due course, it will be really interesting to see her up against a Terrier. Subjectively, she looks a lot bigger.

Thanks to Gary for taking some time out from his busy day, and sorry for having to dash off - the perils of a pre-booked ferry!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamessquared/sets/72157653788940698/with/17954970853/

Tom