WCRC Licence Suspended

Well here it is 1000 posts and still no answer as to when WCRC will be back.

 

I have no great liking for Nigel Harris, but even on a 20mile GCR, steam will hardly be able to "stretch its legs". Two ten mile or so stretches with Loughborough in the middle will make for a couple of short-lived sprints. I think that the general public will baulk at the ticket prices asked for these short-lived journeys. They will not be over-impressed by 60mph running, rather dismayed that their journey is over so quickly!

 

It seems to me though that so long as 'open access' is enshrined in law there will be steam on the main lone.

Failing that, at least in Scotland

 

I'm sure that if WCRC aren't allowed back The Hosking organisation will be forced to do something - he's made too much of an investment not to - but whether we'll ever see the same scale and range of operations is questionable.

 

Even if WCRC are allowed back, I doubt we'll see the same number and variety of steam trains on the mainline again.

 

At present, the Great Central is only authorised for speeds above 25mph for test purposes and this is only when the Railway is "closed" to the public. I think the SVR has been used in a similar manner in the past and other lines may have been.

This is a huge difference from being permitted to run passenger trains at more than 25mph. ROGS apply differently for non-mainline undertakings with speeds in excess of 40kph (i.e. 25mph) and exemptions from door locks, and even TPWS do not apply. It would be a major step to consider for the GCR. The David Clark Trust may be willing to fund it but I would doubt whether a pure business case could be made.

Steven

 

I said as much many, many posts back - "IF" WCRC "are" allowed back, and even if they're not - then I can see the return of the "80's" ie, limited steam and limited secondary routes................

As for JH, I still think he's waiting in the wings to see how things pan out, after all, he's got a hell of a lot tied up in motive power currently doing bugger all, execepting 70000 on the main line.......... I for one would not be surprised that "if" WCRC are not allowed back, then he may well step into the breach.........

But until NR & the ORR state their intentions, all is just speculation.

 

This is taking conspiracy theories to new levels of absurdity.

 

Absolutely, utter nonsense, but it takes all sorts I guess,

 

I wasn't going warrant the post with a reply, but you have said it for me!!

 

As far as we know, the "authorities" have not expressed any objection to steam on the main line in principle. The straw that broke the camel's back could just as easily have been diesel hauled it seems to me. I see no reason why main line steam shouldn't return to the level it was, unless of course In the past, it has been sustained in part by WCR's style of operation (unknown to us), that isn't going to be allowed to continue.

 

Did I say anything about pure steam?......... err, no!

As I said in my last sentence, at the moment, everything is just speculation, so until we hear something concrete from the nags mush, then that's all it will be.

 

See my post above - who the hell knows!

 

I think that the GCR is likely to face greater concern to any raising of its speed limit than most of us. The section of double track carries with it the risk of a 50MPH crash as it is, if you raised that limit, the consequences any collision rise rapidly. I imagine that it would be easier to argue the case for higher speeds on single track sections of railway, and the issues around TPWS etc would still be there, but possibly slightly less so. All that said though I think a heritage line with a speed limit greater than 25MPH is very challenging and expensive, and the return would be difficult to quantify I think. The comments from the GCR representative are ill-judged I feel. The full ramifications of this incident have tentacles that might affect even the GC.

The traction being used on the train that overran the signal is only relevant IF the loco's design or state of maintenance in any way contributed to the incident. Otherwise the issues that the ORR have are quite clearly with the safety management system of WC and its ability to manage staff adequately.

 

Correct.

Ah, now there is the pertinent question. Is it possible to run a "go anywhere" TOC using largely "temporary" staff, (the two apparently necessary components to the widespread steam specials we have seen in recent years) within the modern railway's safety culture? I suspect that the answer is yes, but it would require a very much larger management overhead. Is there the money to support this overhead? I lack the information to know.

 

Shouldn't that be "inability"?.......... or were the crew operating under a diktat?...... is that is what is being investigated, given the catalogue of "misdemeanours"?........

 

One possibility, as we are discussing what Jeremy Hoskin might do rather than set up your own TOC could be to see if you could 'bulk buy' from DBS or whoever. Clearly if he were to commit to a certain level of trains/routes for a number of years then an operator could find it worthwhile to provide the crews

 

At the risk of going off topic, I can't see the point of any heritage line running regular services at greater than 25mph. Lots of extra cost, and for what passenger benefit? You just end up shortening the ride. We're not selling a convenient mode of transport, we're selling an experience, and to represent value for money, that needs to be an experience of reasonable duration. Except in one or two very special cases where a moderate increase in speed might help pathing, for 99% of heritage railways, running at greater than 25mph increases costs while decreasing the perceived value to customers: not a happy business proposition! For all their marketing claims about being a preserved "mainline" railway, I don't see that financial equation being any different for the GCR.

Tom