New Builds

Now, rather like Chaucer I will begin my post with an apology or two.

Firstly its your money to do what you want with it. Secondly I realise that in time we may need new steam as existing locomotives become increasingly frail - look at both 4472 & Royal Scot,

But.........................

There is quite a lot of unrestored rolling stock just rotting in the open air. These are 'original' vehicles, and there wont be any more of them. In addition to that of course there is a lot of restored stock again sitting in the open air.

So rather than pouring money into new builds what about some big sheds instead to try and keep it all in as good a condition as possible - and stop so many of our heritage railways looking like scrap lines.

I'm not criticising, its simply a statement of fact, but, for example look at the 'quad art' set, and I think that the record on 'heritage' diesel and electric stock isn't often that clever.

So, discuss please

 

Should have stopped there frankly. People will put money towards projects they are interested in. I don't believe - as many people do (and do so without any evidence to prove their views either way) - that new build locomotives take away from other worthwhile projects. If they did, we wouldn't have any heritage rolling stock at all, none of the dozens of line extensions, and new buildings being built, and so on and so forth.

So my view is that we shouldn't look to influence people just because they might not share our world view. Each to their own, and if you feel that strongly about other railway projects, get out there and help them yourself.

 

Nothing to discuss really, SAC Martin has summed it up well. People up and down the UK aren't just discussing this topic, they are getting on with it: New build, original restoration, covered accommodation and the rest.

 

Big Shed's just aren't sexy though are they? Much needed as they are what would appeal more? A nice big shiny P2 or the shed to put it in? I know what ones practical but what one'll attract the funds of your red blooded gricer with his 8pints of Claret pumping around his system.

 

I love the idea of big sheds.....but...

Take 45551 down at Llan. We go out, fundraise all across the country, and then come back with our money and parts we have spent the money on and pay llan engineering to assemble it. Giving them money and profit towards keeping llan railway going. And they are looking at posibilitys of extending the shed at somepoint for out of ticket locos etc. But its newbuild locos at llan that are helping to top up the restoration jobs on site.

Tyseley have just had an extension to their shed and while its not much in the grand scheme of things, 45551 has and is continuing to have work done there, as is the F5, County, Tornado started there. So again newbuilds helping towards the whole heritage railway scene.

Then lets take a heritage railway. It wants to raise money towards say a shed. It might host a gala at which point the profit from it goes towards that shed, get in a popular newbuild in about 5 years when there should be a whole host to choose from and there "should" be a nice little profit to be had from that towards a shed.

Or do a heritage lottery bid to build an educational shed facility and you have a shed paid for.

Or do what we at the patriot do which is get out and about promoting your project. Every weekend all through the year. Its a very hard and demanding job but if you keep at it youll get what you want at the end of it!

 

It grinds my gears a bit because you hear a lot of people out and about complaining about new build locomotives as if it's the end of the preservation dream.

Sorry but the true apocalypse of the preservation dream is down to people like myself - who'd like to help out at their local railway but have to work every hour of every day, and 6 day weeks regularly, to make ends meet and therefore can't afford to volunteer regularly anymore (but I find other ways of supporting railway projects such as being a covenanter to the A1 Trust, member of the Wandering 1500 club and a few others, and of course putting my books on sale in a few preserved railways in England and Wales).

I've thought for a while that we're in danger in this country of losing out on an entire generation of railway enthusiasts aged 20-40 because they're all struggling to afford mortgages, bills, paying off student and other associated debt and generally just struggling along in life - therefore don't have the income or time to spend on their interests.

Yet, I see people aged 20-40 doing a fantastic job up and down the country at lots of different preserved railways. Of course the older generations are more numerous - they have more disposable income in later lives with better jobs and pensions - but nevertheless railway preservation looks like it's doing very well at the moment for people in and around my age group, and that pleases me greatly. I wish I was more part of it: but that's the way the cookie crumbles for me. Play the cards you're dealt and all that.

Perhaps the moral of the story is: what you perceive to be the truth of the matter may not be if you do a little research. You might be surprised what a little research digs up.

 

A well reasoned reply Gav, in short it's the trickle down effect, raise money for a highly popular project which will attract major financial support, which 'should' benefit the movement as a whole or, ask and ye shall be given.....

 

Simon, you have a wonderful way of putting things. I have to say I agree with what you say there are youngsters out there certainly at last years SVR Autumn Gala most of the footplate crews were around my age. This wonderful movement that we're involved with does seem to keep attracting yoofs despite what the naysayers bleat about.

 

And yet you oppose building any. Whereas most, probably all, enthusiasts would welcome more undercover storage for all types of stock, I very much doubt that any of the funding for new builds would become available for sheds if theses projects did not exist. The replies above express far better than I could why the situation is as it is.

A more helpful suggestion would be on how more storage COULD realistically be funded, presuming you do mean storage and not an educational facility as suggested by Gav.

Dave

 

Well, the Narrow Gauge lines have been doing it for years -they have to, and the WSR produced 9351 to do a job. But if you exclude some of the 'kitbashing' exercises where you have more of a rebuild than a new build, do we yet have the need for any new locomotives on either the main line or preserved lines that the existing steam fleet cant meet?

As far as putting stock under cover I see it primarily as a conservation measure but obviously if you can afford an educational centre so much the better

 

This is the problem. Railway preservation isn't organised into one big railway like British Railways. You do not have practical aspirations for the good of the movement: in reality the movement itself is made up of hundreds of small groups doing their own local thing.

So it's not about "need" but "want" primarily and heart almost always rules the head. Is this a bad thing? No, I don't think so. Makes railway preservation interesting!

My view on the main line is that we've not got anywhere near enough on the main line at any time selling the preservation vision. It's keeping it in the public eye for as much and long as possible and sells us all in preservation.

Hence why I personally am unhappy with West Coast Railways recent behaviour. But that's for another thread.

 

Simon has summed it up perfectly for me.

Do we "need" steam on the main line at all? Probably not. But while it is bringing employment to many, pleasure to thousands and much needed tourist revenue to the destination locations, it is certainly something that many people "want".

Then stir some variety into the mix, in the form of a few new build locos. In a few years time we could be riding behind a Patriot or a P2 or a Night Owl - something unthinkable 20 years ago. I say bring it on!

Dave