another post got me thinking....

There's so much potential inaccuracy of train timing using stopwatches that I'm amazed that anyone takes it seriously, and certainly not to obsessing over the last couple of percentage points.

 

I always think that on shows like top gear or 5th gear when they are testing cars lap times with stop watches (Normally on tracks which would have circuit timers).

 

If the quarter mile was actually passed in 8.9 seconds then both 8.8 and 9.0 would be "correct" with 1/5 second stopwatches.

I understand there are other timings of the 6'8 4-4-0s in the 90s.

 

80079 was almost like a personal stalker to me, it came and found me on EVERY SVR visit in the 90's and early 2000's.

 

I presume you felt particularly "stalked" at that Gala when it seemed to have invited much of the rest if its family......................

Steven

 

Ironically I wasn't at that event , I do miss 79 now, but at times it was almost like groaning when it inevitably came into view when you were hoping for somethign else.

 

From the latest Severn Valley Railway News, Small Prairie 4566 has just joined the 100,000 mile club.

 

Apologies for reopening an old thread - but just in case you want to put a face to the name here is a photo of the postal worker, William Kennedy.

 

Must be 35028 and 4472. FISH7373 81C

 

I would suggest that 6233 Duchess of Sutherland is probably a decent contender - and we can't rule out any of the Black Fives or the K4 and K1 either. 4472 is definitely the "longest spent in service" in a purely technical sense, but as pointed out to me last year probably hasn't done the mileage the last twenty years it would have been capable of had it been overhauled to the standard we are seeing now (that's not a criticism, but a statement of fact).

Tornado probably has a ways to go before catching up to a number of the big hitters on the main line. Clan Line has probably been the most reliable and furthest travelled overall - but what about that perennial main liner, Rood Ashton Hall?

More information and statistics needed I think!

 

I would be very interested to know the milage of the Riley Fives? Surely ( as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) 45407 has been around, and at work for a long time and in the last few years has probably got to have been the most well travelled of the main line ticketed locos? Both have had pretty minimal downtime in the last few years too....

Chris

 

Despite being ever present for the last 15 years or so and ever reliable, 4965's mileage is relatively modest.

 

Talking about what might have been - I have often wondered what the result would have been if after Mallard did its stuff
the following day a Duchess had been given the same train and track ?

As for high speed runs on the GWR there is always the run of loco 2903 in May 1906.

 

Might have been interesting, the Duchess had more brute power and arguably a better valve gear, but AIUI the A4 was about half a generation later on some of the front end design.

That is the trouble with the UK records: too much about who had the 'best' hill.. Goodness only knows what that German locomotive might have worked up to on the same gradient.

 

True enough about the best hill. But Mallard did not achieve the speed that HNG believed it was capable of. Thinking back to the first run of the single chimney Silver Link on the inaugural Silver Jubilee Gresley was probably right that 4464 was capable of more. At the time of the record run the importance of maintaining adequate cushioning steam was not well enough appreciated, the Germans had this problem too.

So if more could have been achieved then the question is how much more? HNG felt that 130 mph was possible - and some crews believed that they had surpassed this in later years.

Back to the "hill" and how much was needed. Dreaming a little and thinking back to how well Bittern ran returning from Newcastle when the 90 mph series was in play. High speed running on this stretch was restricted during LNER days due to limitations of the signalling system. 4901 worked 730 tons on this section reaching a maximum of 78.5 mph according to the log and this during the period of wartime speed restrictions. Too many "if only" and "what if" questions. Things to mull over from time to time. If only there had been a stretch of track suitable for allowing these engines to work to a more naturally achieved maximum. A4s are a bit of a Warspite of the locomotive world. Another engine might be a little newer and a little larger and in theory superior but that is no guarantee of certainty when battle is given. Some creations are, for some unfathomable reason, more than the sum of their parts.

 

I like the comparison with HMS Warspire, 242A1: if ever there was a ship with a personality - even a sense of humour - then she was it!

I'm not sure of the power outputs here though. Power required rises with the square of velocity, so heavier loads at lower speeds don't necessarily mean that higher speeds with a lighter load would be achievable. Likewise, the power needed to reach 130 mph would be much higher than that need for 126 mph, even though the difference in speed is les than 3.2%.

 

So, are the rumours of 130 mph generally believed or not (Silver Fox was it)? Even if rumours of 140 mph are probably fanciful.

 

Before that, Colwyn ran for many years also at the NNR, whilst more glamorous / powerful locos went out of service.

 

I would presume to speak for the general populace, but speaking personally, I dont believe the 130mph rumours, for three reasons:

1) The power output would be huge -103% of the speed of Mallard would mean about 110% of the power output of a loco that was already being worked very hard, even if on the same train.

2) It would be very hard to have kept any high speed run quiet. Even if there hadn't been a timer on the train, the guards and signalbox records would betray the speed, and someone would have reported it. Going all out on a special train, with careful preparations and notification of signalmen to keep the line clear is one thing. Going even faster on a regular day feels beyond credibility. If nothing else, the guard would have steadied things if he felt the train was going so fast as to be essentially out of control.

3) If, instead, 130mph had been considered somewhat unremarkable, then you would expect a large number of fast runs with a distribution in which 130 was the peak, but there were increasing numbers at lower speeds. There is no evidence for that AFAIK.

So speaking personally, I don't believe the 130mph rumours.

Tom