Steam Banking up Shap

This is a sight which I know hasn't been seen for a long time and I believe the last time that a steam engine was seen banking another steam engine up Shap in the preservation movement was back in 2001 when 76079 banked 45157 (45407) up Shap & Beattock on a special to Edinburgh and back.

A Sight like this hasn't been seen since but when we get the newest of the pocket rockets no 76084 out on the mainline when she is kitted out for mainline working, this is a sight that I know hundreds if not thousands of people would love to see again. Imagine it a Jubilee, Scot or possibly even a Britannia being banked behind the pocket rocket up Shap with 12 or 13 coaches.

Footage of the 2001 special

 

Superb. Thanks for posting it here.

 

Im pretty sure the Tyseley panniers have been out on a banking run since-don't know where it was though
Chris

 

They banked 6201 up the Lickey.

 

9600 has banked 45690 up Old Hill on the way to Blackpool in 2010 and 80079 has banked somthing bunker first up the Lickey in early 2000's.

 

Was that the first steam Lickey Banker since 196? I seem to recall that 2968 & 7325 blazed a trail in '97 was it? Then as you say 48773 did it early '98. Wouldnt say its regular but its been proven Steam can do the Lickey again!

 

Just 10 on and a banker. That's the way to do it!

 

In BR Days, a Black 'un on ten probably would take a banker. This doesn't imply that the Five couldn't do it on its own, merely that it was kinder on the fireman and meant he still had a fire in the box on reaching the Summit.

 

In some ways banking on the Lickey is easier, as it still takes places with a number of the freight workings, so the facilities of sidings at either end and signalling allowing "dropping off" should you so wish to do so at the summit, and unless you go with a load small enough to be uneconomical to most (5690 on load 6), then banking/double heading/ diesel interference is obligatory.

Shap is more difficult with pathing, means it would be difficult to hang any tank rated less than 60MPH off the back, which would also have to be coupled from loop to loop as 76079 was, plus class 7's upwards would now be expected to make the climb unaided on all loads.

 

On Boxing Day 1967, 70013 took 13 up Shap from a dead stand at Tebay.....without a banker.

 

Also banking taken place at Exeter, Central to St. Davids, both successful and not so !

 

on a 125 reaching the foot of Lickey, the effect on the train was palpable..........

 

All trains were banked up Lickey at least when I was there, even a Gloucester local with 4 or 5 on with a black 5 would get a pannier.
I still think that a good shove from a banker and the 5's should have been OK to the top.
I had heard it was a Union thing, jobs for the boys.

Cheers Dave

 

Though Steam Banking (rather like steam double heading) seems to be a well appreciated spectator sport the question to be asked is just how much of it was due to inadequate locomotives? I am mainly concerned with the design aspect but rostering could also be considered. Also the both the customers and the shareholders must have been hit by unnecessary costs due to the two practices.

 

I think that is wide of the mark. Consider a line such as Ilfracombe to Exeter Central. 2 miles of 1 in 36 straight off the platform ends at the terminus with a "cold" engine; then 40-odd miles of moderate gradients on a twisty line; then a few hundred yards of 1 in 37 into Central. Any loco that could lift a train up those gradients (bearing in mind trains such as the Devon Belle were often well over 300 tons) would be massively overpowered for the 40 miles in between. Lickey must have been similar; a freak gradient in the middle of a more moderate line. In the circumstances, banking may well have been more cost-effective than having engines that were overpowered for 95% of their task.

If there is blame, it would be with the civil engineers who built such lines, though sometimes the geography is unavoidable!

Tom

 

I'm with Tom on this. Take the WCML, for instance: starting at Euston there's a fair bit of climbing to Tring, but after that it is all but flat - give or take a few short humps - as far as Carnforth. So an engine rostered all the way from Euston to Carlisle is ambling along until then, has a bit of work to do to Shap Summit, then its downhill all the way to Carlisle. So for most of the journey, the power of the big and expensive engine that can take Shap in its stride isn't - cannot be - used.

Better to provide a smaller, cheaper loco and then give assistance on the short stretch where it's needed.

 

I remember clearly, the bankers at Exeter St David's. I went there for my first ever trainspotting event in April 1960 from my home in Taunton and even at such a young age, remember the sequence of whistles first from the train engine and then from the bankers as they set off up the hill to Exeter Central. I think each engine gave around 4-5 whistles duly acknowledged by the engine at the other end. I think the tank locos were Z's or W's at this time.

It was sheer sound and fury which was always the highlight of any visit to Exeter and made up for the growing use of Warship diesels on WR trains.

About 50 years later, I was on a train up from Minehead and stalled on the bank with Pocket Rocket and Tangmere with Peter Kirke at the controls of the leading engine on a train which was just too heavy. How we could have done with those Z's at that time!