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UKR "The White Rose" to York now 7th July, Deltic D9009 out,Tornado back

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by alastair, Feb 18, 2015.

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  1. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks for the report Al, next best thing to being on board. Is Paula Majors a first for mainline steam?
     
    Sheff, Jul 8, 2015
    #81
  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Now edited. He wouldn't be amused! :cool:
     
    Big Al, Jul 8, 2015
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  3. bakabung

    bakabung Well-Known Member

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    Well DD did say...."She had the hammer down through Welham Green":)
     
    bakabung, Jul 8, 2015
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  4. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I think one should have higher expectations. This century A4s have run comfortably between York and KX in both directions in around 4hr. Somewhat exceptionally Tornado ran to York in just over 3 hr for the Top Gear special. I have no doubt that given the path any of good mainline class 8s could perform similarly if not overloaded.
     
    Enterprise, Jul 8, 2015
    #84
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  5. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    What was yesterday's load plse?
     
    Sheff, Jul 8, 2015
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  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    It's finding a path in the first place that is the problem.What happened yesterday was active train management in a crisis situation, something that NR seems to do well. What is more difficult seems to be the planning computer exercise that tries to find gaps in the preplanned programme. And of course in that scenario you are limited by what the software does and what it cannot do in relation to acceleration times for steam, for example. Therein lies the problem and that is when sometimes, only sometimes, NR may tweak an existing service train path to make something fit. But what we know is that NR cannot be bothered to do that routinely. Why should they? They did take the trouble on the Bittern high speed runs but only because someone from DBS worked with them on what might be possible.
     
    Big Al, Jul 8, 2015
    #86
  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    It was 13 for 500 tons gross although on some of the starts coming home, it didn't really show.
     
    Big Al, Jul 8, 2015
    #87
  8. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    My humble effort from Welham Green can be found Here!
     
    Duty Druid, Jul 8, 2015
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  9. FlyingScotsman4472

    FlyingScotsman4472 Member

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    FlyingScotsman4472, Jul 8, 2015
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  10. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Was that the longest mileage to a water stop with just a tender in preservation? It was just over 121 miles, and that after some 'blowing off' at the platform in York. As Al's report said, Steve didn't actually have a light hand on the regulator. Can't think of any tour that's come close in the thirty odd years I've bashed mainline steam in preservation.
     
    1020 Shireman, Jul 9, 2015
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  11. 7P6F

    7P6F Part of the furniture

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    Yes it was a great run by Tornado didn't see any clag from the back of the train just sustained running in the 70's. Furthest I've been between water stops was some years ago by a black five between Blackburn and Carlisle non stop through Appleby past the man with the hose, must be over 100 miles.
     
    7P6F, Jul 9, 2015
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  12. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Clag from the back? The Deltic had gone home. When they propelled the train into York station, the rear vehicle was a carriage.
     
    richards, Jul 9, 2015
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  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I think that's about the limit of what the A1 will do safely. And I suspect that the 11 min water stop (that's all it was) didn't fill the tender either. So perhaps that explains why, after another 70 miles including two more starts, water was taken at the buffers at KX. But what it does illustrate is how much more efficient it can be when you get sustained running with no checks although I don't think you can underestimate the load that was on the drawbar.

    Yes, in my view, there was a lot more going on with that run south than just the fast, sub even time leg between Doncaster and Peterborough. A credit to the locomotive and crews for managing it all so well.
     
    Big Al, Jul 9, 2015
    #93
  14. geekfindergeneral

    geekfindergeneral Member

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    Given that main line steam in 2016 is in about as fragile business and political/regulatory position as it has ever been, this is probably not the best time to have higher expectations, or to be experimating with performance envelopes. This is a time for "doing the knitting" and staying out of trouble.

    "Covenantor Castle" has done Tyne Yard to Edinburgh on one tender full, and its keepers have done some tentative work on London to Bristol non stop, and think they can do it. But it takes an intimate knowledge of the modern railway to do it, and I don't think there is an appetite among the serious players for even suggesting new performance risk.

    The White Rose did not get back through a sclerotic ECML in such good time just because of NR. The on board team negotiated the ad hoc path after the railway had collapsed and NR trusted them to deliver. Without that trust on the day, it would have crawled back or terminated out in the sticks. That was a micro triumph in its own right.
     
    geekfindergeneral, Jul 9, 2015
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  15. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Doing a bit of window hanging in Connington loop. They emptied the BTT Tank. If my memory serves that was the smaller 2500 gallon tank so there probably needed to be some water management on the rest of the 67 miles to the Cross, though blasting through Hatfield at 66 and south of Hadley Wood again at 66 tended to suggest the KX top up was as the Traction Inspectors say, 'if there's water available, use it'. Don't know how long they stood at the buffers as had to rush across london to get train home.
     
    1020 Shireman, Jul 9, 2015
    #95
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    That's a rather strange term for Tornado, would you like to enlighten us as to the reason for it? Maybe because it wasn't your idea or was it the success of the covenanting system.
     
    RalphW, Jul 9, 2015
    #96
  17. 7P6F

    7P6F Part of the furniture

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    In the eleventh coach back, I meaning me didn't see even the merest waft of smoke from Tornado.
     
    7P6F, Jul 9, 2015
    #97
  18. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Ah, gotcha. Would have to agree that there was very little (dark) exhaust all day. The Deltic was smokier. On the way home, I was sometimes forgetting which sort of traction we had on the front.
     
    richards, Jul 9, 2015
    #98
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Strangely there are those who are jealous of the A1's success and equally dislike the loco. The most common disparaging name I've heard is "Yawnado" but "Covenantor Castle" is a new one. I'm sure the A1 team will lose lots of sleep over this one - NOT.
     
    Spamcan81, Jul 9, 2015
    #99
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  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I suspect you are right about the path. And I have a considerable amount of faith when DBS is in the mix with the A1ST for Network Rail to listen a little more than they might otherwise. But if that was the case, and you are NR, then you do have to take a leap of faith when the default position for obvious reasons is not to. So as I said, well done to NR control.

    The more I think about it and the more that DBS operations keeps a 'clean steam slate' with NR the more comfortable I feel about the future pattern of steam operations on the ML with them. Let's hope that the slow walk of recovery for WCRC also takes place.
     
    Big Al, Jul 9, 2015
    #100
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