Bulleid 4-DD Preservation

https://www.facebook.com/groups/630365910333531/

The members of the above facbook group are trying to see what real interest there is in making a last ditch attempt to save the two surviving coaches from these units. Please visit the site if you are interested.

One coach is at the Northampton Ironstone Railway the other at Southen Steam Locomotives site in Kent, both are very negliected and if nothing is done soon will be lost forever.

The NRM does not have funds or room apparently. Also they would need some where preferably undercover for storage this does not need to be on a railway just dry and secure.

 

Would be helpful if those of us who don't use Facebook could access their site to form a view of whether there's a scheme or a pipedream here.

 

I agree, at the moment its a group of 174 people who have been playing a watching brief for a year or so. I only joined this week by acident and some seem to know what they are talking about, the costs involved and they have contacts, they know who owns the two coaches and are now at the stage of finding out who is interested in seting up a Group to take this forward in the real world. i do not normally use facebook eiher so understand not everyone access.

 

I wonder if the VCT would take one on? They have a Bulleid coach at Ingrow already, but not sure about how an EMU would fit in.

Interesting to see that Anthony Coulls is top of the list of members on the FB group.

 

A shame I can't view their Facebook page. Is there going to be enough people willing to restore both coaches and will anyone donate large amounts of cash to overhaul them. I've Google Bulleid 4DD and found these photos.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rw3-497alh/6238954214/in/pool-bulleid-4dd-emus/

 

We should preserve one as a lesson to future engineers not to build anything else like it.

 

For those not aware the 4DD only worked to Dartford as the clwarances were generous. They never ran on the Mid Kent for example. If looking for somewhere to use them oportunities may be limited

 

Wouldn't the 4-EPB be more useful for a preserved line and you wouldn't have to worry about height clearances. I was fascinated about the 4-DD when I first discovered it on the Internet, but it would give a unique attraction to a line.


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For those who are unable to access facebook the current situation is that a aproach may be made to see if the owner of the coach in Kent is willing to sell, if he is then a realistic target and appeal can be set up in the Real World. They are not going to go in blindly, there will be an assessment of the costs involved and they understand the work required. It will probably be a static (but very interesting) exhibit as most people understand the loading gauge issue. Thus the comment that 4-EPB s are more useful does not apply.

 

I fear that sadly the railway preservation movement has not done such a good job with 'non steam' stock................

 

I agree, but that does not take away from the fact that there is an interest in them. Being negitive at this point is not what is needed.

 

If anyone on this forum knows of anyone who can help in this project, or just wish to register their support (no finacial donations are being asked for at this time) for the continued preservation of a 4-DD coach. Please contact Mark on the following email mark.hickmott@yahoo.com. He has given permission for this email to be made public and also to share with any other groups or presevation societies that may be able to help.

As already stated the costs are huge, the task will be assessed before fund raising starts, and getting ownership of at least one of the coaches may prove difficult. Railway preservation is about challanges, and this challange could mean a minor but interesting part of British Railway history is kept alive for future generations. The two surviors are doomed unless something is done now. So please encourage and give good advice if you have any.

 

One huge cost, assuming many are broken, are the upper deck windows. There are three to each compartment and they curve into the roofline. If only static would perspex be cheaper than safety glass?

 

The owner of the Selinge Car is very hard to track down, so you need to find him first, then he may not be interested in selling, he wont do anything to prevent it rusting away to nothing, but wont give others the chance to do anything either, its the same person who owns the 01 31065, so i think that any change of owner will have to wait til Esmunds death, then watch the vultures fight over the 01, the coach i think is largely not in his interests, because how long has it been there? and no attempt made to allow any repair work, or to arrest the corrosion as far as i am aware, mostly because contact could not be made ,

 

Thanks for the info, the team are aware of how difficult negociations will be, but they are in contact with people at Selinge and at this stage they are only trying. Only if anything comes from the aproach would any talk of fundraising come about.

Yes if the restoration was static then other options could be looked at. Bus Preservationists get hold of some very unusual shaped glass, and what about Airoplane restoration some odd curves and shapes here as well.

 

These vehicles have always fascinated me, ever since seeing them in service, though sadly I never rode in one. I spoke to the owner of the Sellinge example about the possibility of buying it over 25 years ago, but got nowhere. Esmond Lewis-Evans is a nice old boy, but dealing with him is, to say the least, problematic! He is also, now, very elderly and anything could happen at any time, so whether a deal could be reached with him or not, it might be necessary for the would-be preservationists to move very quickly. Would that be possible, I wonder?

As to where it could be accommodated, that problem need not be impossible to overcome, if realistic funding arrangements could be put in place. There are railways which have sufficient space and where gauging would not be an issue (there is one not far north of the Thames) but an essential requirement would be covered accommodation. The cost of this would need to be part of the overall funding, though given that this would have to be at a very substantial level, it would not necessarily be that high a proportion of the total restoration cost.

To be honest, it's a long shot, but it is definitely the last chance to save at least one of them.

 

The one at Northampton looks like it has had work done recently to it especially at the driving end. Looking at the Facebook group the owner of the one at sellindge has asked for £30,000 which is very expensive, the group are also looking to build the trailer cars in the middle.


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I think the talk about building Trailer Cars was maybe just talk at the time. That would be a long way in the future and only one car may end up being saved. It true £30000 is what the owner thinks its worth.

When reading the facebook pages remember lots of things get talked about, the plan at the moment is to assess cost and work required. Then if the project looks viable raise funds and look for a home. Talk about Trailer Building is way in the future if at all. If a Real World group comes out of this following an inspection then there will be a long term plan put in place at the moment support is needed. Again if you can help email to :mark.hickmott@yahoo.com.

 

Hi, my name is Mark Hickmott, and I'm the person who has started the ball rolling with this 4DD project. For many years, people have talked about the Kent 4DD but no one has started anything to see if the Kent 4DD can be saved. All talk and no do!
The post below is what I posted on Facebook and has started the ball rolling, please read the post first, then reply.
Thanks Mark
Facebook Post
Hi all,
There seems to be alot of interest with the unit in Kent. I have messaged Jonathan Flood and Richard Moffatt about getting a serious group together to see if we can buy this unit in Kent.
I'm willing to start the ball rolling, but I need to know how many of you are serious about this project.
The first thing is to contact the owner via either Richard or Jonathan, have the unit assessed about it's condition and of course the asbestos that will need removing.
The 4DD unit cost is around £30,000, but there will be other costs Solicitors, inspection of the unit, insurance, Asbestos removal quote, just to name a few.
If we are to move forward it will be done as a Share Holder Stake.
The 4DD owners at the NIRT quote £250 as an owner share.
We have 174 member here on this FB page, to get a start ie buy the unit etc the cost per member at the moment would be £300 - £500, could be paid monthly, this would rise £52,000 - £87,000, enough to make a start.
This is an estimate only.
There will need to be, as mentioned above a full inspection report done first and of course will cost a bit to get done.
Hopefully if the unit is OK to buy, it will be a long road and will need alot of members to help, please have a big think about this and let me know.
Ideally a stake of £500 per person would be good.
Lets make it happen rather then just talking about it!
Contact me at mark.hickmott@yahoo.com not through Facebook.