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Bulleid 4-DD Preservation

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by maninthecorner, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Morning All.
    This is a long shot, does anyone know any ex workers from the Lancing and Eastleigh works, that may have worked on the building of the 4DD?
    I've put a request into the NRM for all their drawings they have on the unit, hopefully I'll get an email later to confirm the cost etc.
    Thanks for all your support.
    WATCH THIS SPACE!

    Mark Hickmott
     
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  2. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Hi,

    Thanks for taking an interest with the 4DD project.
    It's been suggested that Bulleid used fibreglass as insulation on the unit.
    When he started the Rebuilds on Steam Loco's, he changed to fibreglass instead of asbestso, but we will get this checked.
    We are also getting the 4DD's drawings from the NRM, hopefully there will be info on the insulation.
    We moving forward nicely, if are able to support us, please let me know.
    Please use this link to our Yahoo page: kentbulleid4ddemugroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk this runs along side the facebook page. It also gives me a better database of info about people who are interested.

    WATCH THIS SPACE!

    Thanks again.

    Mark Hickmott
     
  3. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Thanks for your post.
    WATCH THIS SPACE!
    If you are interested please use the link kentbulleid4ddemugroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk
    If you join the group on Yahoo, it gives me a good database of info and you can follow any news as it happens.
    Also on Facebook.

    Regards
    Mark Hickmott
     
  4. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Re moving the units about the non electrified network with locos.

    I have a vague recolection of seeing an EMU being towed by a steam loco as an unfitted freightt complete with brake van
     
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  5. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    This is an urgent request for anyone who has any photos of the units that we can use in any future publicity to contact us via our yahoo group.

    mailto:kentbulleid4ddemugroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk

    We need both colour and black and white shots of the units in service in both Green and Blue liveries, 4002 at Ashford, and scrapyard photos especially of any of the coaches being cut up. Copyright will remain with the owner and any use will be credited to the owner.

    Thank you in advance.
     
  6. cav1975

    cav1975 Member

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    That will probably have been an electric unit going for scrap without working brakes. Later the practise was abandoned when the Southern Region banned unfitted trains.

    After that air fitted locos (diesel) were used.
     
  7. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    You are obviously showing your youth. It was just as likely a brand new 4EPB being delivered by a vac only fitted loco.

    My memories of the stock when traveling on the Mid Kent were

    1. 3 SUB
    2. 4SUB matching trailers
    3. 4SUB 3 SUB strengthened with wide trailer
    4. 4 SUB all wide
    5. 4EPB
    6. 2EPB and 10 car trains
    On the main line I remember going with dad to see the brand new 4CEP.
     
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  8. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Evening,

    I've brought some new covers for the unit. Hopefully, this will show the owner that we are serious about restoring the unit.
    Also, it will help the unit through the winter months, if the talks take awhile to sort out.

    Fund raising.
    If all goes to plan, a short term fund raising plan will be setup via Just Giving. This will enable the group to setup all the correct accounts etc.
    Just Giving will have charges for setting up the account, also if the project fails, people can get their money back.
    Watch this space for more news!

    Mark Hickmott.
     
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  9. RichardSalmon

    RichardSalmon New Member

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    Not our understanding of the insulation used in the DDs. The contemporary BR-built steam-hauled carriages used asbestos and the rebuilds of Bulleid Pacifics were much later than this, after Bulleid had left BR. Stripping asbestos however is simply a question of the cost of employing suitably licenced contractors, who may need to cocoon the vehicle; maybe just £10k per vehicle. There are far larger costs in total in restoring a vehicle. Just one example, curved toughenned glass - we've only found one supplier in the UK, and they actually get it made in Germany!

    In terms of replacing insulation with fibreglass - a word of warning - we've found it retains moisture, causing rot/corrosion.
     
  10. RichardSalmon

    RichardSalmon New Member

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    That's a very sensible step. The tarpaulins we use cost several thousand per coach, and last about a decade. Our shortest record for the life of a cheap lightweight cover was a couple of weeks before the wind ripped it to shreds, and generally they are destroyed by the UV in about a year. If using the cheaper ones, a double layer helps, since the one beneath remains watertight being protected by the sacrificial one on top. That's the approach we took with 3687 (first one lasted a year, and then we put a new one on, with the old one replaced on top to keep the sun off the new one).

    The other problem is drying out the carriage before tarpalining it. We reckon it takes 3 months in a shed before a coach is dry enough to put a tarpaulin on, otherwise you're just trapping moisture inside, and promoting rot rather than slowing it, so ensuring ventilation is also important.

    The advantage of a double layer of lightweight ones is the ease of putting them up on the coach - for the heavy ones (each covers half the coach) we usually place them on top with a fork-lift before unrolling. It's just about possible for a team of 8 fit people to put one on without the forklift, hauling it over with ropes.

    Make sure they're well tied down, to prevent the wind getting under it (if the coach might ever be shunted with the tarp on, make sure it's tied down to the underframe and not the bogies). If you have roof furniture (I don't think the DD has) old car tyres placed around the ventilators etc are very useful to protect the tarpaulin and make it easier to put on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  11. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Hello,

    There seems to be a differance with the info about asbestos on the 4DD. We have been given a number of places to look, but the general view is, from ex railwaymen who serviced them, it's wasn't known as an "Asbestos Unit" but of course we will still have a look and access the unit, when we view the unit.
    As for the glass, I have been approached by someone who would like to be involved with making the glass. It's at an early stage with the project and we will explore all avenues when the time comes.
    I agree about fibreglass, There's plenty of different materials to use now, and again we will look into the options.

    Thank you for your interest and comments about the 4DD project.

    Regards
    Mark Hickmott
     
  12. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Richard,

    Thanks for the advise.
    I been advised to use cheap (ish) covers. The main cover will do the whole unit LxH, I have 3 other slighty smaller covers to go over the top and down the front and back. I have bungy straps to pull the cover under the unit, and 6mm rope to secure the rest, and using lots of dolly knots!!!!
    Getting the unit dry first is out of the question at the moment, we don't have the unit brought yet, hopefully this may happen by Xmas.
    As for dry storage, no plans yet.
    As long as it's covered, it's a start.

    Thanks again for your help.

    Regards

    Mark
     
  13. nick813

    nick813 Well-Known Member Loco Owner

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    Hello,
    I would suggest using 5 ton rated ratchet straps rather then bungee/ropes.

    Available on Ebay or certain auctions. Often fairly inexpensive.


    Nick
     
  14. Mark Hickmott

    Mark Hickmott New Member

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    Hello Nick,

    The bungees are just to pull/hold the cover in place while we get it sorted.
    The idea of ratchet straps is a good one, but we don't know how strong the unit is. The body was made from a lightweight steel/alloy and the seating units maybe be part of the structure. If the unit is sound, then we will use ratchet straps.
    Thanks for your interest and comments.
    All the best
    Mark
     
  15. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    Thank you for all who have supplied information and photos in the last few weeks. I have been working on producing a website for the group which can now be shared publicly.
    http://www.bulleid4dddoubledeck.co.uk/
    It is still work in progress, links will follow to the FB, and Yahoo groups, the video content will hopefully play within the website and if need be fundraising links (Just Giving) and appeals. I hope the Progress fills up with reports in the New Year. Should things progress the way we wish them to then after the 19th a statement will be placed on the Home page. If the project does not go forward then I will leave the website up as a tribute to the 4-DDs.
    As you can see we are still short of photos of the units in service, especially colour. A photo of the units under construction would be a real find, does anyone know where the works photos for Eastleigh and Lancing are I expect the NRM have some I will look into this in the New Year.
     
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  16. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a mistake on your web site on the final paragraph about Mr Bulleid as you have him retiring from CIE in 1948 and it should be 1958
     
  17. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    Thank you GWR man, date is corrected.
     
  18. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    A couple of other corrections/additions:

    It's Córas Iompair Éireann not Cores Impair Emirian
    Intention is spelt with a t not an s
    Bulleid is spelt incorrectly in the section about Ashford
    It might be prudent to add a link to the Northamptonshire Ironstone Trust (http://www.nirt.co.uk/) if you want to foster good relations regarding the other vehicle
    and
    Bulleid died on 25 April 1970 at the age of 87 (maybe add this to the line about him dying in Malta)

    There is a bit of confusion between the home page and the progress page. On the home page you state that "This website is currently under design and is dedicated to the history of the 4-DD. It is not the offical (note that official is spelt incorrectly on the website) site of any group or society." but the progress page talks about "Progress of our project" - you need to define what that project is, as the home page is saying that the website isn't associated to a project!

    Other than the points above it's a great start to the website - good luck with it!


    Keith
     
  19. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    That's a pretty unimpressive website.

    I could find nothing on it apart from details of the Santa specials.
     
  20. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I thought so too, however a link is a link, and if there comes a time when the new group wants to borrow parts/measure something or even try to acquire the second unit, I think it would be good to be able to show that you've had a link on your website and reflected the NIRT in a good way.


    Keith
     

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