6233 in LMS red and wider livery debate of locomotives/stock

But 6100 did not as she was not rebuilt until BR days - another big difference. You go on about "authenticity" yet would be happy to see an inauthentic livery on 6100 should it ever happen. But as you feel this would be justified, I presume you are happy with the BR green 9F at the GCR as after all, another member of the class was painted thus by BR.

 

Effective indeed but I wonder how many of the charter participants who swooned over her unkempt condition turned a blind eye to the ex works condition of the goods rake behind her?

 

What you should do and many railways don't do is to educate Joe Public by stressing the fact that you are attempting to provide a travel experience from a bygone age and explain that your locomotives are presented in livery styles that they would have carried during their working lives. If not then why not just completely dumb it down, paint them all in bright colours, put Thomas faces on them and we can all give up and go and find another hobby. This sort of thing is not what the pioneers of the preservation movement and those of us who have put hard earned cash into getting the heritage railway movement off the ground intended.

 

As a regular photo charter participant I don't think there is any preferred livery what's more important is a realistic train formation for the loco, a black Manor with blood and custard or chocolate and cream Mk1s is spot on. But then so is 4566 in 1928 livery with three GWR coaches.

 

As I recall, it was painted BR black for the final few months, and certainly ran in that condition right at the end of it's ticket in 1992 - much to my disappointment, as I much prefer the GCR colours.

I deplore the decision on many grounds, not least aesthetics and that I consider the BR era to be the nadir of Britain's railways, but it seemed well done and, I believe, raised the funding to allow the current GCR colours. As others have said, a fundamentally different question to that of authenticity on other locos.

 

What about locos like '90733', '90775' and the numerous austerities that have been given fake BR identities in favour of their own, accurate and more attractive ones? Does an indusrial loco's or foreign Dub Dee's own history not matter as much long as it's got an animal painted on the side?

 

forty, post: 1336527, member: 225"]Joe public doesn't just ride on the trains, he/she admires them, and takes photos of them, maybe with the kids standing in front. I submit that while he/she may not know precisely what variety of authentic or not it is, he/she will have an opinion on how attractive it looks.

Absolutely and some peoples interpretation of that is to paint an 8f red or a 9f green rather than boring black!!

- Surely if you wanted a red or green loco why purchase an 8f or 9f..?

As I think SAC Martin said a few pages ago - steam locomotives have history and it should be respected and for me deliberately painting one in an inaccurate livery just doesn't fit with that.

 

Mods.....any chance of renaming this thread as it seems to have drifted a million miles away from 6233?

 

The bit I underlined originally wasn't true. It arrived in 1975 and was repainted black in 1992. Are you seriously suggesting that after overhauling it, they then spent the following 9.5 years tin-rattling for a few tins of black paint, whilst everyone at the GCR bemoaned it being in GCR livery? Absolute tosh, I'm afraid. The BR repaint was done right at the end of its ticket, because there was a desire to see it in BR livery while it could still work, and from my recollection it only ran like that for one or two weekends as it was on very limited steamings towards the end. There wasn't enough time to line out both sides so one side was unlined.

In general terms I agree with your premise, and indeed I much prefer the older liveries myself, but you picked a bad example. Also note that the GCR today has the N2 in GNR livery and the King Arthur in malachite green, both replacing earlier coats of BR livery. I daresay there is much to criticise on the GCR but accusing us of being in a mad rush to paint everything in identical boring liveries is not one of them.

 

What about locos like '90733', '90775' and the numerous austerities that have been given fake BR identities in favour of their own, accurate and more attractive ones? Does an industrial loco's or foreign Dub Dee's own history not matter as much long as it's got an animal painted on the side?

As I think SAC Martin said a few pages ago - steam locomotives have history and it should be respected and for me deliberately painting one in an inaccurate livery just doesn't fit with that.

I think I'm just a bit more realistic about the (small) price we have to pay for operational steam loco's & railways. It not like spurious liveries are rife. Lets keep it in perspective, its not a massive problem.

I say again (for the last time) in response to the above points & you're not going to like it............its done for commercial reasons. Nothing to do with disrespecting identities, more to do with reinvention to generate income which is a necessary evil.

 

I think you will find it was a group of photographers who funded the repaint for a couple of charters to recreat a 1950s scene with blood and custard stock, it was as is often the case a compromise as the valance over the driving wheels was not removed.

 

One 9F ran in green with a unique name and copper capped chimney so no I'm not.

 

Well this talk of liveries and presentation of locomotives, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the following.

Railways at War weekend, usually end up featuring locomotives in liveries not seen during WWI or WWII (the latter being the period more commonly represented on railways). But even more so, every locomotive is beautiful clean and shiny.
Do we go as far as to represent the war period more accurately with locomotives being worn and dirtied?

 

Fair enough. I did try to find the dates it was there but failed, and I thought it arrived later than that. It still doesn't alter the fact that it went from a unique (? I think it is) and very attractive livery to one that can be seen on many other engines. I'll concede it was historically correct, though.

Glad we're in agreement on your second paragraph.

 

But that set a precedent. Like may photographers you seem to pick and chose as to what degree of authenticity you want. I recall running a charter on the NNR with 34081 in malachite. One of the regulars said he wouldn't book it as Bulleids didn't run on the North Norfolk in BR days. Fair enough, his choice. He then went a booked a charter with the Super D on the WSR. Didn't matter then that the class didn't run on the WSR in BR days because it was in BR black and the rest of his desire for authenticity went straight out of the window.

 

Another good post.

 

Many wartime weekends also feature post way locos and roiling stock. Many things in the current heritage scene are a compromise, something that some armchair experts fail to accept.

 

Nail hit squarely on the head again there.

 

Nonsense. The pioneers of preservation wanted to save locos, lines, stock etc. that were being swept away by modernisation. If livery was so important, how come in the early days of preservation I was able to travel behind KWVR, KESR and Bluebell locos in house livery, a BR green Black 5 (on the main line), a CR blue Fairburn, an LMS red Ivatt 2 and an LNER green K1?

 

See Post 134.