Traws Link Cymru - threat to the Gwili?

The scoping study is now available (pdf) - it finds the total project cost could be up to £750m.

 

hi chris,

many thanks for the above link which i will read with great interest and try and digest.

the Welsh Assembly Government spend a lot of money on daft transport schemes. the Cardiff - Holyhead LHCS plus buffet car and first class coach run by Arriva was paid for by the WA, as was/is a subsidised plane service from Anglesey to Cardiff. the 'Valley Lines' all had short platforms extended to 6 car length, but no 6 car sets have ever used them!

the IOW Council doesnt have such money to waste!

in view of the Welsh Assembly Government's previous record on such matters, i wouldnt say necessarily that cost was a prime consideration - so the Gwilli ought to be concerned.

cheers,
julian

 

I should think probably not. I think there would be lots of opposition to a line reopening through a national park. Much of the line is a favourite family day out buggy-walking and kid's cycling route, so you can imagine the petitions!

There is also a big difference between acceptance of a steam train chugging along at 20mph (a quaint and nostalgic point of interest in the countryside) and a 100mph London-Manchester express hurtling by under ugly electric wires.

Reopening is a different argument from "it never should have been closed". In this case the latter is more justifiable than the former.

 

Both are variations on the dreaded "wouldn't it be nice" brand of sentimentality. Run for your lives!

PH

 

The idea of 100mph on the route through the Peak shows great ......... imagination?

 

Interesting. Right at the start the consultants state "there is no defined primary intended purpose for building a railway line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth."
Accomodation of the Gwili Railway is considered to in several places either by parallel or alternative routes for a new line.

 

Those with political influence can affect future events whereas no-one can affect past events, therefore armchair speculation about the future is perhaps slightly more fruitful?

 

If it is anything like the North Wales to Cardiff service the motives will probably be more about WA members getting from Aberystwyth to Cardiff quicker and in comfort!

 

The impression that I get is that there is unlikely to be any conventional business case for rebuilding. However, if the WA Members have a vision to create a strongly defined link between the principal population centres on the south coast and the mid-Wales coast then it would be quite legitimate for this idea to be pursued. I think that the target speed and times envisaged are far too timid. They should be looking at something the equivalent of the Borders Line with perhaps a 75 minute end-to-end transit. As for the Gwili, if a new alignment is chosen around the hopelessly tortuous section, it should be possible to devise shared running at the Carmarthen end leaving the Gwili to have sole use of the scenic route to Llanpumpsant.

 

Is there a Welsh Assembly/Government election in 2016?

 

Yes

 

Thanks for posting that - interesting but would it ever be commercially viable?

I did notice one comment about making it a 'stand alone' line not connected to NR at either end would offer different options of what/how it could be run (not in the franchise? trams anyone?) Still, if they want to build it stand alone, and pay an annual £X million subsidy I'm sure we could look at running the Carm - Aber Steam Railway for them!

It's a shame the gradient profile is so blurred, I would have liked to enlarge that. If anyone is interested both ends are about 5 metres above sea level, the high point is at the Aber. end at 206 metres. Pencader tunnel almost matches it at about 195 metres at the summit in the tunnel. Plenty to keep the firemen fit there!
Alan
Edit, Added:- Just read the appendix regarding bridges and culverts etc and think they may be a little under estimated. I think they list about 10 culverts along the full length... We have got 8 drains (350mm Dia. or less) and 32 culverts ( 350mm to 1,800mm Dia.) that we know about in our 8 mile stretch, and we keep finding more! (NB Anything over 1,800mm Dia. is considered a bridge)

 

So will these hordes of bards traveling from south to north Wales be satisfied with the breaks of gauge at Minffordd and Blaenau Ffestiniog? And just how long would it take to get from Cardiff to Bangor by this new route?

 

Ages, but wouldn't it be fun! We could all do with a bit more of that in our lives.

A lot less money than the pointless Trident missile renewal.

 

Perhaps some of them are railway enthusiasts. A steam run from Cardiff to Aberystwyth - Castle to Carmarthen and a Manor from there, in 1964 timings with some buffet pork pies thrown in, would bring in the tourists. Or better still, via Brecon/ Talyllyn Junction and Moat Lane Junction with light mogul haulage in Mid Wales!

 

Yes - and it could be interesting if these people do well.

 

The new alignment option is best for the Gwili (in my personal opinion)

Regards

Matt

 

thank you again chris for the link to the report which i have now read.

there are various hints and 'reading between the lines' it would appear the consultants are not very optimistic.

there is a telling reference that i interpreted as suggesting money would be far better spent in upgrading the Swansea District line.

they have already decided that the cost benefit analysis is low.

i was surprised not to see any mention of the time taken to travel by car from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, or from Swansea and Cardiff to Aberystwyth.

that huge missing bridge at Carmarthen, and the A40 ring road are huge problems.

the missing bridge south of Aberystwyth town centre and development on the track bed are huge problems.

i was surprised that not much was stated about accomodating the Vale of Rheidol Line at Aberystwyth.

the diversion to avoid the Gwilli Railway is going to be very expensive.

i hope the preliminary report results in this crackpot scheme being abandoned permanently and no further money wasted on consultants fees.

cheers,
julian

 

Having read the report in more detail I can only concur with the comments that the report is sceptical about the benefits of reinstatement. The first paragraph highlights this. The costs of reinstatement are very high and there is no way that those costs would be returned in any reasonable timescale.

If the Welsh Highland cost 10 million to re-instate it has repaid that several times over within the local economy. I just can't see 750 million being generated by Carmarthen to Aber, in fact I would suggest an expanded Gwili realising its full potential would be as beneficial to Carmarthenshire (that's what I'll be working on anyway!)

Regards

Matt

 

I think largely due to Network Rail beaurocracy, joint running is out of the question. It might be possible for the two to have parallel running, and even for them to have a cross-platform interchange at Carmarthen. The issue of the missing bridge is a problem. A single bridge would be cheaper than a double one, but I still reckon a double bridge would be cheaper than sharing. What happens if a tourist train breaks down on the mainline? What rescues it? Who pays compenstation to whom in order to compensate the passengers travelling on the delayed mainline train?