British Rail logo

Can I ask was their a ban on using the lion logo's on in the early days of steam preservation?

 

AFAIK there was no ban on using it, but some early heritage lines decided to paint their ex-BR locos in non-authentic or pre-BR liveries so as to differentiate themselves from the standing joke that was British Rail.


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BR banned it later tho!

 

Not my photos

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/wn/2015d/488bton_davidpool155_12jul61a.jpg (by David Pool).

Shows the Adams Radial Tank at Brighton, still on BR metals but on its way to the Bluebell in July 1961. The logo has been crudely painted out and the loco renumbered from 30583 to 488 and the smokebox number removed, but is otherwise in BR livery.

Stepney similarly, from 1960 - still in BR black, but the logo painted out and renumbered 55.

http://www.bluebell-railway-museum.co.uk/50images/bimages/03.jpg (By Derek Cross)

So in those two cases at least, the logo was painted out before they reached preservation, presumably by BR (rather than by the preservationists).

Tom

 

A lovely looking locomotive the Adams Radial Tank, my favourite on the Bluebell Railway.

 

You're not alone ...

Tom

 

I'm fairly certain that some( but by no means all) loco sales had a clause prohibiting locos being painted in BR livery or otherwise being identified with them. That was the reason behind the multitude of non-BR liveries on locos sold directly by BR into preservation.

 

That's what I was led to believe. I remember watching a TV program sometime ago and I recall hearing about the clause stopping steam locos from being painted in to BR colours. Wasn't that the main reason why the Ivatt tank 41241 and the USA tank 30072 at the KWVR were painted in Burgandy red with KWVR on the side tanks.

 

Perhaps we should say "presumably by BR staff": the motivation might vary! The people in charge of the running sheds would certainly have started their careers pre BR, and its reasonably well established that there were sheds where an enthusiasm for removing BR branding at the first opportunity was not associated with a desire to maintain the purity of the BR corporate image.
I'm looking at a 1969/70 vintage booklet on preservation, and photos of Dart Valley is all GWR liveries, Bluebell private or pre group, Worth Valley all private, but SVR looks to be all BR livery other than the GWR 0-6-0.

 

I Believe that David Shepards Green Knight And Black Prince when they entered preservation, had the BR logo painted out and a crest put in its place, so whilst the two were in BR livery, they did not carry BR totems.

 

I am well aware of various 'house' liveried applied by railways but as has already been highlighted it doesn't appear to have been exclusive to all, hence my question as to whether or not their was an official notice from British Railways that preserved steam loco's could not carry the BR emblem at the time & if for when did the order expire? (after Aug 68 perhaps).

 

Apart from the VofR was it ever proposed to paint steam in BR Blue?

 

deleted

 

I don't think so - B.R. at the time, were very keen to disassociate themselves from the 'dirty old steam image' and the elimination of steam had been planned for many years before corporate blue came out in 1964.
On the question of B.R. totems I'm pretty sure that painting them out was a condition of sale for some years. Certainly the L&Y Saddletanks Fund's 51218 had hers painted out - Richard Greenwood could probably confirm that. As mentioned above locos that went into preservation after Aug 68 e.g. 43108, 45110 etc didn't seem to be affected but there was a trend at several preservation centres to go for unauthentic liveries.
Ray.

 

I thought I saw somewhere that in the early preservation days there was a ban on BR logos (certainly in the early 60's) I know a lot of locos on the Bluebell in its infantcy had locos in BR black but with numberplates removed and numbers and logos painted over, 55, 488, 27, 473 all spring to mind before they gained pre grouping liveries.

 

I'm sure elsewhere in the forum that @LMS2968 commented on this?
Chris

 

Not steam, but when 24032 arrived at the NYMR I remember it having the 24 painted out (running as 024) and the double arrow painted out. I was told at the time BR had insisted, so not just the lion logo

 

It was, and indeed still is, common for vehicles that are sold from one operator to another (or even for scrap) to have logos and other brand identifyers removed or covered before sale. This certaily happens for aircraft and buses so it is eminently reaonable for trains to be dealt with in the same way.

 

There was certainly never any suggestion that the ex BR locos that arrived on the SVR during 1967/8 needed to have their BR identities removed, 3205 and 48773 reverted to pre-nationlisation livery through owners choice.

Of the ex BR locos purchased and stored at the Longmoor Military Railway, 34023, 35028 & 41298 certainly retained their BR crests. Both 75029 and 92203 had their BR crests on arrival but were soon repainted, with 75029 changing from black to green livery.

I am uncertain as to any restrictions on the retention of BR crests/numbers that were in place prior to 1967.