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Flying Scotsman

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 73129, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    This is good news indeed!!
     
  2. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    It cost what it cost. The fact that the NRM engineering team were hugely out of their depth when faced with carrying out a major overhaul is well recognised. So essentially two overhauls were carried out.
    The A3GT modifications required little undoing. Boiler pressure reducing to 220psi and the returning of the cylinders to standard rather than Enterprise/A1 bore. A boiler overhaul would have been necessary regardless. The museum chose to restore the A3 type boiler (they already have an A4 type) and this ended up being pretty well a new build. To give some perspective on this the A1 Trust chose to make a substantial saving by having its new build boiler manufactured overseas and selected welded construction. The cylinders would have needed work regardless.
    The locomotive would have withstood the extra power output expected of it if only the chassis had received due attention. This was not done. Maybe the necessity was not recognised or the owner did not have deep enough pockets.
    As to bankrupting owners, 60009 has not bankrupted its owner, so what went wrong for 4472 and Alan Pegler? Check out the US tour, it was supposed to be a trade tour with government support, but someone felt that an exhibition of the modern should not be linked to the old, dirty and outdated. Alan was also surprised in the early days of ownership at the cost of the upkeep of the paintwork. Some of the other costs must have come as a surprise too, but 4472 was very much a loner at a time when steam facilities were rapidly being eliminated. They were early, difficult days for private preserved locomotive ownership.
    The work carried out in this difficult repair and rebuild has employed people, allowed them to apply skills and probably helped to fund a workshop a large number of engines will benefit from.
     
  3. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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    It is a great way to conclude 2015. And also a great way to get 2016 off the launch pad.:)
     
  4. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I can't believe he's allowing them the day off.......he'll be telling us next he's taking them all to the pub and he's paying.:eek:..........:Saywhat:

    Seriously, as Ralph says, it's good news that things are coming together very nicely.
     
  5. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Yes I think you are right, that was the impression I got.
     
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    So 2016 dawns and with it a locomotive that is about to push main line steam back up the publicity ladder in the same way that Tornado did when it first appeared....and for all the right reasons rather than the wrong ones. Whatever else the year may bring, this has to be one of the best good news stories for some time.
     
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  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    As long as there is a TOC to operate her and fingers crossed there will be. Looking forward immensely to seeing her back in action.
     
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  8. greenslade

    greenslade Member

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    the a4 boiler was sold ,for a lamentable sum to the j.hoskings outfit.i say lamentable because as the only spare boiler in existence a much better price could and should have been obtained for it.
     
  9. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I did read in the beano, That there are charges afoot later this month over Wooton Bassett, At Swindon Court for the Driver, and that the ORR are still considering in the light of the second incident to revoke West Coast's licence with a decision due later this month, if this is true, then 2016 could beoff to another bad start .
     
  10. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    And what, exactly is fitted to 4468? Something out ot the Russell Hobbs catalogue? Yes the A4 boiler fitted to 4472 at the time it was acquired was sold on to the Hoskins empire but the NRM made a decision and at least it will result in the speedy overhaul of the type 107 and its continued use.
     
  11. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Have Her Majesty's press yet decided the outcomes of the various proceedings pertaining to WCR?
     
  12. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Sodding hope not! The last kettle I bought off them lasted 3 weeks!
     
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  13. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Serves you right for trying to get 200psi out of it.
     
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  14. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Taking it into national ownership was clearly a Good Thing but there is room for argument as to how much of the money that that cost could have been raised and used for some other purpose, and whether that would have been better. Once it became the Museum's property, there seems to have been an obligation to spend yet more money in restoring it to working order, but again there is room for argument as to whether that cost would have been better spent on something else.

    In some alternative universe FS is rotting away in a shed or a siding somewhere but we can only guess what, if anything, we would now have instead.

    Edit: none of the above is intended to suggest that I'm other than pleased that FS is ready to haul trains again.
     
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  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    How about the LMS flying bath tub:) and a certain A4 ? but again, im happy that hopefully FS will soon be back hauling trains on the big railway.
     
  16. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    4472 bankrupted Messrs Pegler and Marchington because they tried to build unsustainable commercial developments around it - the loco steaming fees etc were not enough to cover both the maintenance and all the costs of the associated overheads. John Cameron has never tried to do that with No. 9, there is little associated with it.
     
  17. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Nothing preserves a loco better than keeping it running. And preserving it on the main line is, relatively, not much more expensive than some heritage line.
     
  18. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    When Flying Scotsman is running again, and anyone who wishes to ride behind it, and can afford it has caned it in for the year/decade/century/millennium.
    Hopefully all the fuss and palaver will subside, and other NRM locos will be considered for overhaul to working order; mainline or heritage railways.

    NRM used to manage some of its locos itself, as well as placing them with Keepers. Anyone know of any moves afoot?
     
  19. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    John Cameron, credited with once being the largest sheep farmer in Europe, had a business that allowed him to afford to indulge successfully in his passion. And we enthusiasts have benefited hugely from this man's commitment to steam.
    All private owners of locomotives had difficult decisions to make when the infamous steam ban came into effect. No. 9 went to Lochty, 4498 went to Philadelphia (yes, this one was owned by a group but it helps to illustrate the point). 4472 had an exemption for a few years but a decision had to be made about what to do with the engine. Did Alan Pegler have the income that would allow him to own and operate a Pacific? Remember, early days, no one really knew the true costs. All owners were on a learning curve - they still are - but it must have been pretty steep back then. Was the US venture a mistake? In hindsight, yes. But who was to know that the promise of support would be worthless?
    Tony Marchington was never going to be able to continue to fund the A3 once his business could no longer supply adequate income. He had large commitments and it is fair to ask if he really did have enough security to allow him to indulge as he did. Maybe he should have spent more time focussed on his business.
    Did 4472 bankrupt anybody or was it owned by people who lacked the funding to allow them to be custodians? But did Alan ever regret his period of custodianship? It was one hell of an adventure. And this year the adventure continues.

    Happy New Year to all.
     
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  20. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Correct! I well remember Ken Cottam (the ex-BR fitter employed by/at Steamtown) telling me "All this sitting around cold for weeks on end and then steaming 'em for a day or two does 'em no good....no good at all!" Amazing skilled man...could fettle anything.
     
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