48624

It was indeed, hence the winking smiley at the end of it.
As for post war LNER green locos, was it not the railway's intention to paint the whole of the capital stock, except A4s, green? Nationalisation got in the way of course whatever the intention.

 

That could possibly be true, the Swindon finish was very durable and one or two tank locos survived the war in pre 1928 livery

 

A Manor made it to the end with a GWR marked tender. Whether it had this tender throughout or, it was a late swap, I don't know.

 

It was a late swap from a recently withdrawn 63xx. At Reading IIRC.
Ray.

 

7816 "Frilsham Manor" apparently.

Not my photos: note in the first one there is clearly GWR on the tender but also a smokebox number, clearly defining it as a post-nationalisation image.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N08/4207873819

https://www.flickr.com/photos/50256734@N05/5702915274

The tender came previously from 6324:

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/Karhedronuk/media/6324.jpg.html

Google searches for 6324 or 7816 will pick up other photos.

Tom

 

Was 6324's tender always marked GWR post 1948, or was this enthusiastic cleaning / re- branding ?

Looking round the net I don't see any pictures of it in the 1950's, yet considering it must have been one of the last, it's celebrity status should have been more prone to photograph than just the last/first few months of 1961/2 prior to withdrawal, when such embellishment was more likely.

Does anyone know the history of this tender before 6324 ?

 

All steel wagons? .Empty 27ton Iron Ore tipplers introduced in the early 1950s ,they were a all weld construction just a box on springs and wheels no doors no flexing. The combination of a bad piece of track and , if one hadn't been complete emptied they would be off .Orders were given about 1955 that if a spring needed replacing the springs on both sides must be done .This was done after one nose dived off the track down a embankment ,and on to a footpath just north of Kettering station for no apparent reason.
Still happening ,I read a recent report on a derailment with a Bardon bogie hopper that derailed due to a bad piece of track, and the wagon not being completely empty, still pilled up at one end.

 

Please see my photo of 0-6-0PT 8700 at Tysley in June 1958 ,with the G W R button on its tank .It in a album British Railways Steam in the North West on http://www.flickr.com/photos/5611hongkong

 

The 97xx condensing panniers did well for a class of 11:—

9703 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/93456400@N04/14347146613/in/photolist-nRNSQM
9707 - http://www.railuk.info/gallery/notes/getimage.php?id=554
9709 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/3447487796

There's also a shot of 5809 still wearing the pre 1934 livery reputedly taken in 1950 in one of Brian Haresnape's books.

 

Or maybe it was because they began to realise it was a problem, and also realised that it was one which could be fixed?

If you have 4 wheel wagons and consequentially a lot of derailments. But if you don't know any better; you can take a "it's just what they do" attitude. Did anyone even ever bother keep statistics on derailments? I guess probably not.

Secondly, it's not so much of a problem if you have the staff to deal with it. And it was only staff shortages in the 1940s and post-war.

And it's not until you've realised that you can build bigger bogie wagons that stay on the tracks better, tested them, etc, that you realise you have a potential solution.

Also, what came first? Did someone realise that a strategic move was needed towards trainload freight and then decide to add 4 wheel wagons to other elements of the rationale to help bolster their case?

Finally, it reminds me somewhat of road traffic accidents nowadays. We accept them as part of life. But lots of people get killed or injured every year in preventable accidents. And they are preventable. And there are actually solutions. The average standard of driving is apalling. But crap driving and it's consequences are just accepted. So perhaps derailments were just accepted in a similar way?

 

One thing that kept 4w wagons in front line use for so long is that many of them were private owner wagons, the owners of which were presumably reluctant to invest in new rolling stock just to make the job of the railways easier.

 

Not just new stock, but also loading facilities, which I think was one of the issues that perpetually stymied attempts to introduce high-capacity coal wagons in particular. And I suspect there would have been a fair amount of head scratching going on if a modern bogie van turned up at a warehouse laid out with access via short wagon turntables!

Tom

 

In derailment terms some 4w wagons are much worse than others, too. The 'Palvan' for example - introduced as an attempt to 'modernise' by handling palletised goods, but due to the diagonally opposed doors frequently loaded at one end only and hence jumping off the track at the slightest thing. Then they were reduded in maximum speed to mitigate this, thus becoming essentially useless and as a result of this sold off in huge numbers to the Army, which ironically ensured that a lot of them survived. The 'Vanwide' was introduced as a result, since traditional hinged doors in the centre were too narrow for pallet loading and the 'Vanwide' doors thus opened beyond the body ends to make pallets in the centre a possibility.

 

They did indeed keep statistics on derailments. They were never taken lightly if they occurred on a running line because of the risk of a train travelling in the other direction hitting the debris.

There was an unexplained general increase in the number of 4w wagon derailments in the 50's and 60's - no single cause was identified and so they were all phased out as quickly as possible. In the interim progressively more drastic speed limits were applied, and as this coincided with the opening up of the motorway network it was indeed a contributory factor to the almost total loss of non-container rail freight by the 80's, except for certain bulk commodities where the actual time in transit was less important than maintaining a continuous supply - coal, oil, china clay etc.

There must have been something that changed, or maybe some things, because services like the LNER 'Green Arrow' fast freight did not have a worrying number of derailments. But the general cause was nevel isolated, although as mentioned above some specific 'modern' wagon types were found to be particularly prone. The 4-wheel cement wagons that DP2 hit were another type.

 

Or is it that GW locos didn't need repainting into BR green in 1948, as they already technically were ?
I noticed most of those pictures show the GWR letters inside a "square" typical of the patch square over painted on the letters in 1948... So maybe that 1 coat wore off.

 

Not in the case of anything less than a County 4-6-0. The first livery for mixed traffic, secondary passenger and freight locos was black until 1956 when mixed traffic and secondary passenger livery changed lined green as the WR received some autonomy. At the same time certain mainline coaching sets were painted chocolate and cream.

 

Not disputing that, but we're looking at Panniers, manors and a 63xx.
Not a county, unless you have any images of a county with gwr lettering in 1962?

 

I think his point being that the classes discussed wouldn't have been painted in br green, but would have had br black applied - so the theory of simply adding br totems to gw paint job doesn't stand.

 

Pannier tanks painted after 1942 would have been all over black with letters GWR, so might well have just been overpainted. Surviving GWR roundels are harder to explain. I do recall hearing a story of a locomotive that turned out to be green under layers of grime, but these tales can grow in the telling.

 

last 55 posts have nowt to do with 48624 !