The Douglas Bay Horse Tramway

Chris, actually I did mention it - see post 15 lines 6-7. The plan for the re-development of the promenade roadway has gone through several incarnations and costings up to 95million pounds. Work has now been put off until 2017 hence the tramway was expected to run as normal this year. Today our excuse for a Chief Minister has announced that the Government will NOT be taking over the horsetrams from Douglas Corporation. There is an online petition for those who wish to register their disapproval.
Ray.

 

Sorry Ray, missed that. I will have to stop "skim' reading.

 

Online petition here:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/support-for-the-retention-of-the-douglas-bay-horse-tramway.html

Best get signing everyone.

Cheers,

Alan

 

It's certainly true that the closure has caught me, and no doubt many others, by surprise. Yes, we all know that the IoM's railways and tramways have long been dependent on subsidy, and hence their future could never be considered completely "secure"; but I had no idea that the situation for the Douglas horse trams was close to "crisis point".

 

Unfortunately the issue on the IoM is that their railways are Government or LA owned, so when they say it's too expensive, that's it, game over. You can sign all the petitions you want, but there is nowt that can be done. Perhaps someone needs to step in and 'preserve' the tramway and run it as a charitable thing outside of LA control?

 

The problem here is the redevelopment that will change the tramway, and possibly compromise its appeal. If the problem can be overcome, great as I hate being negative about it.

John

 

Latest news is that the closure will be the subject of an emergency debate in Tynwald (the Manx parliament) tomorrow.
Ray.

 

I hope they have the common sense to save it.

 

What I would hope is that the politicians will at least agree to a temporary reprieve - say a year - to give those who want to save the tramway time to get their act together and come up with some proposals.

 

The position with regard to the Trams is possibly political in that Douglas Corporation do not and have not for a long time wished to pick up the costs of running them. The new prom plan which they say necessitates them building a new stable block etc. at Strathallen at a cost of nearly £3 million, which they say providing for interest means it will cost about £4.5 depending on which councillor you believe, has given them a reason to be able to pull the plug. They say this increases the annual loss from about £260,000 per year to well over £400,000.

Is it really the end of the trams? I have my doubts. I expect they will continue to run with Government and support. Maybe not daily, and maybe not for as many hours but I think they will continue. Each horse presently does a maximum of three trips during its turn, but normally 2. You could reduce the number of horses substantially, say to six, and that would give you two or three hours operating in the summer evenings or at weekends.

I would also question the costs the council reports it incurs and whether these could be reduced. Just in wages these are in excess of £200,000 per year which covers 3 full time staff and various casuals covering the 4 month operating. To put that into context that is about the same annual staff costs as the Talyllyn has just on the railway side or 2/3rds of the total Talyllyn staff costs if you include the shop and both their cafes. That does seem a touch extravagant and with some reduction in hours and volunteer input I would have thought that there was room for some savings.

As marshall5 states there are presently plans to redevelop the prom at a budgeted cost of £21million. I am not sure where he got his £95Million from, even our Government is not that incompetent. The have been revised several times and the last plans which are the most expensive see the tracks moved onto the prom walkway. Apparently relaying 2 miles of single file track for the horse trams will cost £4million. There is considerable opposition locally as many do not want the tracks moved to the walkway and see the new plans as an expensive vanity project of the current Minister. There were plans in place that were cheaper and which the majority were happy with until there was a change of Minister who decided he would create a legacy. The previous proposals, which they even started work on, saw a single track at the side of the road.

The current plans are subject to an enquiry run by a planning inspector from across i.e. the UK. I believe he is due to submit his report and make a recommendation around the second week of February. Those who oppose the plans to move the tracks to the walkway are fairly confident that he will recommend refusing the planning application. That may be wishful thinking but having kept an eye on the enquiry you would have to question the competence of the Government department who submitted the plans. They have not considered flood protection. Apparently this is something they intend to consider in the next year and install then rather than actually whilst they are working on the prom.

The recommendation will have to go to the Council of Ministers who can decide to follow the recommendation or go against. Just because an expert has reviewed the evidence and given the matter his professional decision does not mean that the ex postmen, school teachers, shop keepers, failed banker, farmer. arsonist, etc. who comprise the Council of Ministers will not decide they do not know better. If they decide the plans should go ahead, whatever the recommendation, the Tynwald will have to agree to provide the funding.

The relevance in all that to the trams is the current level of objections to the moving of the tracks to the prom walkway. The Minister has already stated that the there is now really no need for the opposition to continue as the trams will not be continuing so the tracks will not be laid. He though still intends to go ahead with his plans unchanged even though this meant they had to dig up some of the gardens to widen the walkway to accommodate the trams and it is a more expensive option . This is just so if anybody wants to they could add the tracks at a later date. Sorry but if the trcks and trams go they will not start again.

The prom is in desperate need of repair and the cynical view of some is that the Minister will use the announcement to get his plans through as they stand. He will argue that the work needs to be started urgently and passing the current plans with tracks on the walkway will enable funding to be voted on and work to be started. Changing the plans at this late stage and having another enquiry will only delay matters. But don't worry the Minister will say, no need to worry about the tracks going on the walkway as the trams are ceasing and whilst the preparatory works are underway his department will submit revised plans without the tracks on the walkway.

The opposition therefore drop their objections and the plans are passed. Then hey presto. As if my magic the Government decide to take on the horse trams and the Minister announces that as the original plans they have planning permission for, but which they promised to change, includes track for the horse trams they will carry on with those. Result the Minister gets want he wants have duped the opposition into suppressing their objections. The only reason I doubt that scenario is I have grave doubt either of the Minister's two working brain cells are bright enough to think up or understand such a plan!

Whatever. I certainly expect this will be a drawn out matter and I really do have my doubts we will not hear the clip clop along the prom sometime again.

 

Following this morning's Tynwald sitting it is reported that a "committee is to be set up to look at the options for the horsetrams".
Ray.

 

Well, I've signed the petition and have e-mailed a link to it to various friends that I hope will do the same.

Along with the Steam Railway and the other lines, the horse tramway is one of the attractions that make me want to visit the IoM, something which we are planning to do this year. Take any one of those attractions out of the mix and the appeal starts to diminish...

 

Let's hope that they take the comments on the on-line petition on board. Lots of businesses would lose out if the visitor count diminishes. Shops, hotels / B&Bs, Holiday cottage owners, Restaurants, Petrol Stations, even the ferries and airlines. They don't want that, surely?

 

Absolutely right, but unfortunately none of those directly fund the running costs and upkeep of the horse tram (or any other council/govt funded visitor attractions) so if you look at it purely from an accountants point of view, they don't come into the equation. Only if businesses' that pay them rates started folding would it have any impact on Douglas Councils coffers.

Whether an opportunity exists to approach some of these organisations or maybe the successful financial institutions on the island re providing sponsorship to the trams, is of course another matter and I'd hope this may be one option the Tynwald committee would be looking at.

Chris

 

It was originally envisioned that the promenade reconstruction would commence this year and so it was announced that the horsetrams would not operate during 2016. As a result of this announcement at least one UK based tour group cancelled their usual annual visit. Unfortunately the shortsighted members of Douglas Corporation fail to see that groups such as these spend money on hotels, meals etc. - the majority in their own borough! There has been a lot of discussion in the Manx media over the last 24hrs with various suggestions (some sensible, some less so) for a way forward. Douglas Corporation has been complaining about the operating shortfall for many years and I am curious as to why it has suddenly become 'critical' - up to a week ago they were still planning the 140th celebrations. The cynic in me would suggest that they have received 'interest' in the land which the stables and tram sheds occupy and see it as an opportunity to make a quick buck and, at the same time, curry favour with the Douglas ratepayers for saving their money. As the only original, continuously operating (apart from wartime) horse tramway in the world I would have expected it to have more legal protection, at least by registering the buildings to prevent demolition. Would the tramway's unique status enable it to be considered as a potential UNESCO World Heritage Site?
Ray.

 

Whilst as a Society we do not often get political the closure decision for this system taken on 22 January very much goes against our ethic of supporting living heritage. Several members have asked for this to be brought to wider attention. For details of the closure and a petition against the action see these linked sites. (1) Friends of the Douglas Bay Horse Tramway. http://www.friendsofdbht.org/ (2) Support for the retention of the Douglas Bay Horse Tramway Please support the petition.

The heritage of this system in world terms significant. It was a very late, if not possibly the last, horse system to be built and is almost the last one standing! Loss will end over 400 years of continuous horse drawn railways and therefore the loss is arguably more significant than the end of steam.

(Note - In this instance posting with my SLS hat on in addition to my own personal interest in early and horse drawn railway history)

 

Just an observation as an ex-UK local government manager on possible immediate cost savings if it becomes any form of volunteer run trust. I doubt the IoM (despite its different tax status) has government accounting practice that different as far as front-line services are concerned to those on the mainland in that a chunk of the overheads the horse tram will get charged for are a percentage of corporate costs not actual costs. (The Cost of Democracy charge over here for example is one that has to get spread over everything, elections etc., aren't cheap) When the Trust takes over those go and other elements can be provided by other volunteers. It may not be much but every little bit helps.

 

There is one in Australia and one in Germany so it is not the last one standing.

 

The Aussie one I know of. Where's the German one? Actually meant to put one of the last, my typo error. Now edited. Always a problem if you write in a rush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Wasn't the Australian one scrapped, converted to a busway, and more recently recreated with a replica tram? Or am I thinking of somewhere else? I, too, would be interested to hear about the German one.

Anyway, this morning's news sounds a bit more encouraging. Following a meeting between representatives of the Dept. of Infrastructure, Douglas Corp., Manx National Heritage & Culture Vannin it is hoped to operate a horsetram service for 2016 while options for the future (if any) are explored. There have been suggestions that the tramway was considerably 'overstaffed'.
Ray.