6233 in LMS red and wider livery debate of locomotives/stock

Roy Jackson's model of Retford includes a Gresley P2 - Mons Meg - as 60994 in British Railways Dark Green with the later emblem I recall. It looks quite natural in the livery as a streamliner, but I sincerely doubt any livery bar LNER apple green or the probable grey livery as used on Tornado will look good on no.2007.

The streamlined P2s only carried two major liveries - apple green and wartime black (with variations including white warning panels behind the buffers, plain yellow lettering and numerals and shaded with NE) so there's not much choice whichever way you look at it.

 

I personally think 2007 would look very good in BR(unswick) green. I share your doubts about blue, although I did see Tornado in that livery and thought it looked stunning.

Dave

 

When Tornado was in blue it fulfilled a wish of my late grandfather and my own to see a Peppercorn A1 in the livery I consider best suited them. However after some years of Tornado in apple green both at the start and this time around, I feel compelled to admit that I wouldn't have 60163 in any other livery. The apple green wheels have it for me now.

I personally think if any other livery were to be applied it could only be wartime black at a push (the original 2001 never carried any livery other than the apple green - and I think photographic grey to portray the apple green, stand to be corrected on that) if we accept that all of the P2s did receive this livery and as such 2007 should regardless of form.

British Railways Dark green? I don't think it'd suit the curves of 2007. But then I'm happy to be corrected if done well. I feel it's more likely that we'll always see 2007 in apple green once her trial period (like Tornado's) finishes.

 

I thought Tornado looked iconic in apple green, but a bit less, you know, in Brunswick green.

Of course had an actual 60163 it would have followed on from the last of the other A1s, it would have been built by BR in 1950 or so and I think that had it been built it would have been in Brunswick green with the early logo on the tender.

But if both Tornado and the new P2 are in apple green, will they both be iconic? Will the public be abel to tell the difference anyhow?

 

Those two locos (neither of which is the subject of this thread ) will look (and indeed be) very similar for about the rear three quarters, but very different indeed at the front. However it has been suggested on one of the other threads that the public may get confused between Tornado in apple green and Flying Scotsman not in apple green.

 

Getting back to 6233, I know many people will be unhappy to see the Duchess returning to Crimson Lake, there are several engines though that look much better with Brunswick.

 

But those two colours were carried when she was a flat top so unless you can persuade MNLPS to return her to original condition……………….

 

Towards the end there was a fourth livery!

 

As replicated by New England, Gateshead and countless other sheds.

 

Even better, how about in 3 or 4 years time when we have all three, having 60103, 60163 and 60532 all in BRITISH RAILWAYS apple green! (or BR green, either will do) Then sit back and watch the confusion

 

Does anyone hae any guess as to when the 46233 repaint will be then. shes booked in for whel turning at the end of feb. but looking at it as a layman it would make more sense for it to be delayed until after this jaunt to Scotland in mid March after which the loco seems to have a larger window/gap in it's timetable. All this obv assuming WC are available to take a tour toe Scotland ;(

 

According to someone in the know, it's staying in BR green and has had a fresh coat of varnish.

 

If thats the case...I'm glad! Looks so fine in that livery

 

Be nice if the later crest was applied for the remaining green time if its had a stay of execution.

 

Good idea!

 

Good news, and it is a hard-wearing livery, after all. At the very least, BR green makes 46233 stand out from the WCRC maroon carriages. Have had several runs behind her in this guise to make the most of it, and providing WCRC don't go under by the end of March, I'm looking forward to at least one trip to Scotland. Late crest would be a good change...

 

I'm sure the correct terminology for LNER green is "Grass green", and there were differences between Darlington's and Doncaster's versions.

 

Indeed there is. Darlington Green was otherwise known as Saxony Green, with Doncaster Apple/Grass Green. The livery debate does get interesting, although as usual the same people still compare things back to how things were and don't allow for the fact that the engine is still running today and is in a new chapter of its working life.

Interestingly I remember a friend mentioning Tornado when the project was underway and the view was that the covenanters wanted the engine outshopped in BR Brunswick Green (mid tone engine green to the Western lot out there). Bachmann were even commissioned to make a model that came in its own presentation box especially for the occasion on how it would roughly look once completed. But the board were of the opinion that it should come out in Apple Green, obviously thanks to the perceived idea that the public think steam engines are big, apple green things, thanks to the legacy of one Gresley machine. As a result Tornado was outshopped in that colour but with British Railways lettering as a nod to historical accuracy.

I wonder what the result would have been if Tornado was first done in BR Green, to be put into Apple Green later. Would people now decry the use of Flying Scotsman into BR Green was the effect of Tornado having first emerged in that colour and the public accepting something away from the widely accepted narrative of Apple Green for the biggest and most famous engines? You can bet they would. It will be interesting to see if Tornado reverts to BR Green again soon to follow the legacy of Scotsman once more - history often repeats itself.

As for other kit in Brunswick Green, here is one project that I completed last year. P2/4 60603 Eleventh Earl of Mar