Discussion on EMU's from the Cig 3 thread.

A Leader! Excellent. Where do I sign up?

 

On Facebook, about six months from now ...

Tom

 

As soon as nurse has given me my medication, I shall be right on it

 

If you are going to be sarkey at least get your facts right. SR colector shoes are designed to hang well clear of the running rails as they cross switches and crossings so there is absolutely no risk of fowling. You only have to examine a picture of a junction layout to realise the third rail is not continuous and the shoes will hang on their stops clear of the running rails.

Ex pat Sarf Londoner

 

BR evidently wasted a lot of energy habitually tying the collector shoes of EMUs up when they were being hauled 'off the juice' for any length of time. In case they fouled anything...

Expat Kentish Man.

 

In respect of points and crossings yes they were waisting their time. If a shoe was clear of the running rails on the juice they would still be clear off the juice. It would not be points and crossinga which would be the issue but other trackside furniture bell cranks, point m/c etc which would be placed outside the third rail envelope on juice lines but might not necessarily be so on non juice lines. Perhaps I am being perdantic in believing your post 98 to be factually wrong although you do have a point re other obstructions

 

When I organised the naming of 73109 down at Weymouth Quay station in 1994 we used VEP'S and cable tied the shoe gear up even though the likely hood of us fouling anything other than a badly park car was remote.

 

I'll second you on that. A truly iconic example of EMU history sadly rotting away as far as I can see........

 

3Rd rail emu's seem to be the forgotten item as far as preservation is concerned, but there is at the moment zero chance that any preserved unit ,unles it has all the lastest gubbings will be allowed to run under their own power, the only use for most is a loco hauled stock, then add the fact that most are air braked, so not compatible with vacuumed braked stock, i can remember when network south east had the 2 bill and 4 sub ,and E5000 running on railtours, But in the case of the 3 cig, its mk1 based, so will have most of the structural problems associated with a mk1 coach, not an easy thing to repair then,plus what use would it be to most heritage lines, a few may have a 4 tc and a 33/1 or 73, that it can work with, ,the Swanage ,i understand have plans to run their 4tc ,but it needs a dedicated loco, if you want to run in push pull mode or as hauled stock, an air braked steam engine. plus if a coach has a fault, you may have to take the whole unit out of traffic, rather than the single vehicle, if fitted with just the central bufer .

 

Hopefully this year the 5-BEL will be operational and using 3rd rail, but the coaches have had a lot of modifications to them with a 4-VEP being sacrificed for this. I'm not sure if Hastings DEMU uses electric or diesel when on southern lines.
Swanage have a Class 33/1 available most of the time to operate with EMUs, and usually Swanage get either Bluebell's 4-Vep or LU 4-TC for the diesel gala.

 

I'm reasonably certain that the Hastings unit has *never* run using power from the 3rd rail (bar the CEP carriage therein)

John

 

The onlyCEP / BEP coaches with pickup shoes were the two outer motor coaches.. They would however have a 750 v bus through them, the hotel load would be derived from a M/G unit. The Hastings units inner coaches have similar arrangements

 

The Brighton Belle 5Belle Pullman train (being restored as a 6 car set) is being fitted with motor bogies of the 4VEP type. Two motor bogies under each of the two driving coaches. Having four of that type of motor bogie is intended to provide adequate traction power for the acceleration needed to achieve modern day SR EMU section timings. The motor bogies are being fitted with power operated (spring up/air down) lifting shoe gear of the design used on the same bogie type under ED locos - that so there are then no restrictions on the train being able to run loco hauled passenger trains off the Southern as well as its planned more general use in third rail pick up mode.

Mike Hart

 

ISTR that the power upgrade carried out south of the Thames raised the operating voltage from 660V to 750V since these heritage vehicles last ran which is another barrier to us ever seeing them in action again

 

AFAIK the increase to 750v occured long before the 4 sub went out of service. For example Kent Coast electrification 1959 to 1961 was comissioned at 750V. I will try to find the relative dates.

 

Well this has been fascinating reading. It has just occurred to me though, an EMU on the Epping Ongar...it wasn't the one used in, er, *that* film was it?

 

How any preserved EMU's are in operational condition? What happened to the 4 SUB & 2 BIL?

 

4 SUB unit 4732 is at the Electric Railway Museum
2-BIl unit 2090 at NRM Shildon
Also a 4-SUB DMBTO 8143 at NRM York and TT 10400 at Finmere station.
Operational EMU: 4-TC unit 428 operational with London Underground
4-Vep unit 3417 operational away from Bluebell Railway.
There are others operational but I can't think who else at moment. I know at least 1 MLV is operational.

 

There are a number of vehicles at East Kent Railway including 2 MLV and a 2EPB

 

Minor point but a 4-TC is a set of unpowered coaches not an EMU as such, however it has driving cabs and can control another EMU if attached.