Pre-1916 locos in steam in 2016

Tanfield have two pre 1916 locos running currently;
Twizell ex Beamish Railway and NCB, Robert Stephenson 2730 of 1891
N0.2 ex Keighley Gas Works and Nobels Explosives, Hawthorn Leslie 2859 of 1911.

 

All this got me thinking, by 2023 all pre-grouping locos will be at least 100.
Maybe we should have a special push to get those which are steamable out in pre-grouping liveries to inform the public about all the independent railway companies and their loco histories before the centenary of the grouping.
Then at the centenary of the grouping some at least could go into Big Four liveries for a spell to inform about the amalgamation history.
Just a wild idea...

 

Seems like an excellent excuse to stop painting everything BR black and get some more lovely colourful pregrouping colours back.

 

Hello,
Port Talbot Railway locomotives were painted black.

Nick

 

But at least it's not BR....

 

But you can't do that!!! Every one of them had a rivet added or some step irons altered in 1949 and so they have to be in BR livery forever or it is completely inauthentic, a travesty of everything preservation stands for, deliberately misleading the public and a terrible pastiche!
And that way how would people be able to take photos and sort of pretend to themselves like its 1957, on a day where the loco was unusually clean somewhere without telegraph poles lost on a branch line it was too big for with lots of brand new carriages and all of the cars in the whole of northern England in a field by the station, which unaccountably serves very posh coffee?!?!?!?
Colourful liveries???? I have never heard anything so outrageous....

 

Could somebody tell Andrew that David Wilcock appears to have hacked his account?

 

With the greatest respect to people of a certain age..... When everyone who remembers nineteen bloody fifty seven has passed on, there may be more scope for authentic liveries.
But then again, if there is one thing enthusiasts will never agree on, it's the flaming colour!

 

It makes being a raving lefty seem like a model of sanity....................

 

You're not wrong there but BR black is an authentic livery for any loco that carried it, even those built before 1948. You must admit that the SECR C Class would look much better in unlined BR black than that dull and boring SECR green with the elaborate lining and polished dome.

 

I like BR colours in general, black with red and white lining, mmmm...... however looking at my Model Railway Collection I do appear to have 'City of Truro' in 1903 livery and a Umber painted E4...

It's nice to see these older liveries because it makes a change. Also in the realities of railway preservation is nearly impossible in most situations to totally recreate the past, Swanage for example it was fairly odd to see Mark 1s on local trains until about 1964 and even then it was rare. Plus the general public would probably prefer to see more colour full liveries. SE&CR Green, GER Blue, Midland Maroon is going more of an impact then 'dull' black isn't.

Back to the 100 year old thing... anyone mentioned Beamish yet?

 

Beamish, yes, what's steaming there in 2016?
When's Dunrobin going to steam - fantastic loco!

 

Well Colin McAndrew built 1911 will be steaming in 2016 for sure

 

Coming back to the pre-grouping thing: On another thread, I gave the following list for pre-grouping survivors from the constituents of the SR (see below).

Of that list, it's a reasonable assumption that Invicta; the Adams T3; one of the two M7s; two of the Terriers; the Stroudley B; and the Wainwright D are very unlikely to steam in preservation; even so, that still gives potentially 27 - 30 pre-grouping locos from the south that could steam, now or in the future (some probably less likely than others).

What are the comparable lists for the other grouping constituents?



ex-Canterbury & Whitsable - 1 loco

1 - Invicta

ex-LSWR - 12 locos:

- 2 Beattie Well tanks
- 2 Adams B4 dock tanks
- 1 Adams radial tank
- 1 Adams T3 4-4-0
- 1 Adams O2 0-4-4T
- 2 Drummond M7
- 1 Drummond T9
- 2 Urie S15

ex-LBSCR - 13 (arguably 14) locos:

- 10 Stroudley A / A1x class (Terriers)
- 1 Stroudley E class
- 1 Stroudley B class (Gladstone)
- 1 Billinton E4 radial tank
- 1 Marsh H2 Atlantic under construction, using some original components

ex-SER - 1 loco, rebuilt

- 1 Stirling O class, rebuilt (boiler, cab etc) by Wainwright as an O1

ex-LCDR - Nothing

ex-SECR - 7 (arguably 9) locos

- 4 Wainwright P class
- 1 Wainwright C class
- 1Wainwright H class
- 1 Wainwright D class
- 1 Maunsell N class (built by the SR but to an SECR design)
- 1 Maunsell U class (rebuilt from an SECR K class).

Tom

 

Off the top of my head the LMS list looks like this:

Liverpool and Manchester Railway
'Rocket'
'Lion'

Grand Junction Railway
'Columbine'

London and North Western Railway
'Cornwall'
'Hardwicke'
'Pet'
1439
1054
49395
28249 (Oerlikon EMU car)
One of the Australian Robinson 2-8-0s

North London Railway
2650

London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway
'Thundersley'

Mersey Railway
'The Major'
'Cecil Raikes'

Glasgow & South Western Railway
16379

Caledonian Railway
123
419
828
One of the Aussie Robinson 2-8-0s

Highland Railway
103
('Dunrobin')

Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway
19
51218
752
957
12322
1008
'Dot'

Midland Railway
158A
118
1000
1708
2234 (Steam railmotor, now a saloon)
3924

Furness Railway
3
20
25

North Staffordshire Railway
1 (Battery-Electric loco)
2

 

I have sometimes wondered about doing a spreadsheet (!) of build date, railway and representative type (express, local, goods) to see where the gaps are and work out what would be good to restore/steam/newbuild.
E.g. which major railways have no operating locos, or only a fairly unrepresentative type? Which eras/decades are un- or under-represented.
I might try it one day - but this time without my 10 month old daughter "helping".

 

The LNER list looks something like this:

Stockton & Darlington Railway
'Locomotion'
'Derwent'

North Eastern Railway
1275
910
1463
876
1310
8088 (LNER to NER design)
901
2238
2392 (LNER to NER design)
1621
69023 (BR to NER design)
66
ES1
3267 (NER MPV)

Great Eastern Railway
87
229
490
564
7999 (LNER to GER design)
8572 (LNER to GER design)
1217

Great Northern Railway
1
251
990
1247
1744
4472

Great Central Railway
'Butler Henderson'
63601

North British Railway
42
'Maude'
'Glen Douglas'

Great North of Scotland Railway
'Gordon Highlander'
Steam railmotor (coach body only)

I'm sure I'm missing a few there.

 

Don't forget the coach body off 'The Bug'.

 

Come to think of it there's a GWR engine which has been missed: the frames of 3217 date from 1906.

 

I believe the frame and leading and trailing bogie (minus drivers) survived well into the 1950s as a boiler carrier at Eastleigh, and the body was the wood storeman's office until the early 1970s. Another few years and it would have been a restoration, not a new build ...

Tom