Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express 2016

They have come to the rescue of the FS program but they don't work Vac braked stock and simply haven't got the manpower to take over the WC trains. The only hope is that the problems will be resolved quickly. It will get political as it did last year with the Jacobite season coming up, then questions were asked in the Scottish Parliament as this service is crucial to the tourist season in Lochaber and there is definitely no other TOC that would be able to run it day in day out.

 

I don't think it can 46115 had a bit shaved of the cab height to fit and that hasn't been done to 46100. In any event it's all academic the WCME program has been cancelled, DBS just won't have enough steam crews to run it and where would the stock come from.

 

As WCRC don't OWN any locos I would have thought that would be possible. UK Steam state 6? Air-braked locos (inc. Tangmere) but has been said before (many times no doubt) WCRC have been known to operate up to 4 tours in one day! Let's not forget that it's not just Chu-Chu market either...

 

Agreed, but on the slim possibility DBS are able to pick up the tours coming up which are once a week, rather than every day, therefore less of a resourcing issue, 46233 and 44871 for example have air braking too unless I'm mistaken, and there are rakes of air braked stock from Riviera which 'may' be available?

I have to admit, I think you will be correct, but there is always an outside chance?

 

Don't think stock would be such an issue, WCRC was (and still is I believe) a Spot-hire company long before it became a ToC...

 

The stock used for the WCME's is dual braked, and DBS operated a West Coast set for the GB tour last year, so I would not think stock will be a problem.

 

Do you have anything to confirm the whole WCME program is cancelled? From what I've seen so far, this weekends is cancelled, but RTC are looking at options for the remainder?

 

There is absolutely no chance of this happening the WCME s have been cancelled and tickets are now being refunded. Do you really think Mr Smith will let DBS run his stock? Looking at what happened with Clan Line last year if I was in charge at DBS I wouldn't want to. The fact is we are in for a very lean time steam wise for some time, get over it.

 

And a CME or so...

 

One of the things we found out last April / May was that 46233 was not, at that time, one of the locos "on the DBS books". I don't know whether that has changed in the mean time nor how long it would take to get a loco accepted by DBS.

 

A tad pedantic. Mr Smith owns the locos under a separate arrangement. But in reality they are WCRC in house locos.

 

I think the chances of this crisis, for crisis it is, being solved quickly is too optimistic. What with the court case coming up whereby ORR have taken legal proceedings against WCR and the Wootton Bassett driver plus this prohibition order, there is very little light at the end of what will be a long dark tunnel. Although it pains me to say it, I reckon a long ban is on the card possibly effecting the Jacobites in the summer. As ever, I really hope I am wrong but WCR, even if they are allowed back, will be treading egg shells. Any minor slip up and they could be in trouble again. What is for sure, there will be no third chance for WCR.

 

IIRC it's the HSE who are prosecuting in this case?

 

There seems to be some confusion over this, satisfying the ORR requirements has nothing to do with the court case.

 

Not the only ToC to have 'slip-ups' and I'm sure the ORR accepts that incident happen!

http://orr.gov.uk/what-and-how-we-r...rcement/enforcement-action-taken/prosecutions

 

A bold statement indeed !

 

That is what was said many times last year. ORR are fed up with WC riding roughshod over rules and regs. There WILL be changes at WC before the ORR will even consider giving the ticket back. The straw has broken the camels back this time...............big style.

 

In football terms, it's a bit like ' He gave the ref an opportunity to produce the red card and he duly obliged.' Except that like Graham Poll and that Croatian it's not quite a red card.

I do agree with a point in Ray Mason's post--- outfits like ORR and NR are bureaucracies. They rarely have a single unified view from top to bottom and across. What emerges is a decision coming out of a balance of arguments and considerations. Probably the decision has been under review since at least October while the process took its course.

I feel what happens now may turn on the fundamental economics of the business. Obviously Mr Smith is sitting on assets which are a lot more valuable as a going revenue generating concern than as museum pieces for occasional hire to the heritage sector. That suggests its in their interest to comply unless doing so raises costs to levels which the market just won't sustain for any operator.

My hope is that in the immediate future the business can be broken down into components. So in the first instance the task is to produce a compliant plan for operating out of Fort William, then for operating the Fellsman and Dalesman trips out of Carnforth. Do the things which have been done a hundred times before. Demonstrate to the regulator and the network operator on home territory that old school has been left behind. Then move on from there.

 

A bold statement indeed. At the moment we don know if there will even be a second chance. Time will tell. Reading the ORR letter to WCR it really does seem that significant changes at the top is where is must start. ORR confidence in the current owner and management seems to be at a very low ebb and this in itself may prove an insurmountable stumbling block. As I say, mainline steam, or the bulk of it, is in a long, dark, dank tunnel with very little light at the end of it.

 

Nobody knows that for sure and people are bound to speculate on how a 'work around' may be possible.