Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Yes, an odd case indeed but one which I would have thought was likely to increase rather than reduce the use of the rail connection. Living where I do it would be daft to visit the Bluebell by rail. Visiting the IOWSR by rail is perfectly logical although the bus to Wootton is sometimes more convenient.

Paul

 

I prefer to trust to decent surveys than assumptions. And having commuted intermittently to East Grinstead from Bromley and Orpington for a couple of years back in 4VEP/4VOP days, I've come to realise that what seems obvious to some isn't at all obvious to others - my journey then would have been far easier to drive. Yet when I visited from my father (Wimbledon area), the train would have been much easier.

 

I'm not sure. I suspect that the major traffic to the IoWSR is mainland visitors to the Isle of Wight (rather than residents); what proportion of those visitors travel by foot ferry, rather than have a car? I suspect the vast majority have a car, in which case Havenstreet is your only option.

As for the Bluebell: if you live to the south (say, in Hayling Island - other south coast communities are available) then clearly going by road to SP is the most logical starting point, and that means going by car. If you live to the north (and there is a city of 8 million about 30 miles to the north...) then EG is closer. You can drive, but there is no direct Bluebell parking, at which point the reliability and convenience of the train starts to make sense.

There must be quite a number of people arriving by train, because Southern doubled their summer season service frequency on Sundays from hourly to half hourly after the Bluebell opened.

Tom

 

In agreeing wholeheartedly (apart from the Elephant van about which I will just say "pass") I would caution that Tripadvisor comments can be very superficial. Now and again you get a perceptive one though. I recall one well written and complimentary review of a railway where the lady concerned expressed her surprise that attention actually seemed to be given to keeping the inside of the carriages clean. On one line she felt light coloured clothing would get dirty from the seats and this was something she felt was rather too typical.

Several Heritage lines belong to the Visit England visitor attraction Quality Scheme which is valuable as the assessor's remarks are to the point and function like a consultants report through the eyes of a tourism professional. They are a spur to improvement. I note the Bluebell, unfortunately, does not belong. The sad thing is that, apart from one line which has the full "Gold Accolade", not one heritage railway receives even one of the subsidiary accolades. The lady with the light coloured dress doubtless would agree!

Paul

 

On the Saturday of Giants of Steam the train from SP which arrived at EG at about 17.30 or so as I recall, the crowds coming out were as close as I have seen to those leaving the Brighton football stadium after a game alighting from the 6 Mk.1 set behind Camelot which bought us up there. The train was full and standing from HK to EG.

I went back to SP as I drove that day, I think on that trip back to SP there were about 4 other people in the entire carriage I was in.

 

Thanks Tom, that sums up my earlier statement that commercially given the choice between a carriage shed and extending to EG it was a no brainer!!

 

Saying that they did complete phase 3 of operation undercover during the excavation of Imberhorne cutting in 2011, putting most operational stock undercover.

 

If passengers come by car it matters not where the terminus is. The only financial advantage of a rail connection is if it attracts people who would or could not get there otherwise to an extent to meet the extra revenue costs involved in its operation.

PH

 

One thing I have noticed on the economy front, which should appeal to @paulhitch: Studying the annual loco mileages, since opening to East Grinstead, the line is 20% longer than before. We still operate on more or less as many days as before, and we still run 6 round trips (sometimes seven) at weekends and school holidays midweek. Yet the annual loco mileage is about 17% lower than it was at its peak in the mid noughties. One substantial thing that accounts for that is that the second service set now lives at Sheffield Park in the carriage shed. Before the carriage shed opened, it lived at HK, and there was (on service 2 days) a daily light engine trip SP - HK to get the stock (and a balancing working at the end of the day); and the other service train had to do a half-line trip at the end of the day to pick up any passengers at HK. Taken together that is 20 miles taken out of the loco workings every weekend day and for probably 11 weeks of mid week running. Not the whole of that 17% cut in loco miles, but a part of it.

Loco economy is of course a function of steaming days (which doesn't change) and mileage (which did) as a result of opening the Carriage Shed.

I'm sure that wasn't the overwhelming factor in where to put the shed (much more governed by land availability) but it is an interesting spin-off!

Tom

 

As I understand, the impact of opening to East Grinstead was that numbers starting their day at SP and HK remain more or less unchanged, but there is an essentially new clientele starting at EG, who in effect are all "extras". Crucially, in other words, EG has generated new traffic, not simply transferred existing traffic from one end of the line to the other.

Tom

 

i am sure Tom would agree with me that Loco economy is dependant upon boiler cycles of heating up cooling down etc. a loco in steam for 4 days continuous will cause less problems than occasional 1 day steam ups. mileage as a comparison is largely insignificant.

the Bluebell rostering is usually rather good in respect of the above, as is the IOWSR.

cheers,
julian

 

Something else I have learned, thank you julian.

 

That'sonly partially true - things like new tyres, replacement piston and valve heads etc. are mileage-dependent, and are expensive both in cash and skilled time when they need replacing. Hence my comment that loco running costs have both a mileage and a daily component: the boiler overhauls are largely governed by heating cycles, i.e. the number of days in traffic, the mechanicals by mileage.

Careful rostering to keep a loco in traffic for an extended period can, as you say, help boiler life as well as reduce the amount of coal needed to bring the loco into steam each day.

Tom

 

It should be remembered that by comparison with most places London has much lower numbers of cars per household due to the relative availability and quality of public transport and difficulties of parking making car ownership problematic. The Bluebell like other lines with a direct link to London may therefore benefit more from its railway link than lines in areas where car ownership and use is the norm.

 

I'll be making my first ever visit to the Bluebell (which I'm very much looking forward to) at the start of April. As I don't have my own car I'd be significantly less likely to be able to do so had the extension to EG not been completed. The Bluebell is now temptingly convenient from my friend's in Croydon. So I suppose I'm an "extra"!

 

Whilst this is undoubtedly true of large locos, I think it is a lot less significant on smaller ones where expansion and contraction are much less of a problem. At Middleton, internal corrosion, electrolytic reaction and erosion of stay and rivet heads are our biggest problems. Water treatment has gone a long way towards eliminating the former External corrosion still continues even if the boiler is not being used and tubeplates and tubes are especially vulnerable to this.

 

I now live in Hampshire (not on Hayling Island) and when I visit the Bluebell drive to SP or HK. When in the dim and distant past I lived in Beckenham (Kent, but actually part of "Greater London" and visited, we drove to SP because there was no sensible public transport option. Now I could get a tram from Elmers End to East Croydon, and a train to EG!

 

Any small children involved?

PH

 

I've visited the Bluebell by train and by car, though all in Kingscote days pre-extension. I live about 20 miles north of London and from here would go by train every time - yes, even with my 2 year old and through central London. The times I've been by car I was coming from my parents' house, significantly further away which tips the economic and convenience argument the other way.
Incidentally in Kingscote days the bus completely failed to connect with the train and I had to get a taxi. At least that is no longer a problem.
The only other line I've visited by train in recent years is the Mid-Hants, and I've done that twice and never by car. Getting the car around the M25 is a major faff I can do without.

 

I live about 8 miles from the nearest railway station and with the Bluebell less than 20 miles away, I naturally drive when visiting. However, I did use the line as part of a day trip to visit Standen, a National trust property near East Grinstead, using the train from Sheffield Park and then a bus. I was quite shocked how poor the bus services are and although Bluebell literature plugs Standen, it's really only feasible to try the train/bus combination for a visit when a 2-train service is running.

My wife and I went on a single train service day and only made it back to EG in time for the last train to SP because we bumped into some friends who were visiting Standen by car who kindly took us back to EG station (we ordered a taxi and it didn't turn up!) The annoying thing is that the bus from Standen misses the last train by only 5-10 minutes (unless the bus timetable has changed) It would be good if the Bluebell and the bus company could sort this out.