46235 City of Birmingham

Not sure I follow that logic.

From memory, the number of class 8 locos notionally preserved is something like the following:

11 SR
4 GWR
8 LNER (including one new build), plus another one under construction
5 LMS
1 BR Standard

Of those, two of the LNER ones are overseas; one of the SR ones is sectioned. Even allowing for that, it gives a potential stock of 26 - 27 class 8 locos that could steam in preservation. In the circumstances, it is very hard to see why there might in the future be a "Dire need" for City of Birmingham.

I think what you meant to say was "At some point in the future, steaming CoB might be cheaper than some of the other alternatives". But that is an entirely different argument. Personally, if there is a locomotive that still has a significant ex-service patina, I'd rather leave it alone and keep re-cycling those which have had significant works attention post-preservation, even if that means (such as with Flying Scotsman) increasing amounts of replacement material. After all, it seems to me that once you have replaced something once, subsequent replacement is less significant than the first time you replace some component that still has a direct connection back to the original service life.

Tom

 

Yep, that's it...

 

If there's ever another major war or anything else that cuts off the countries supply of oil then we'll need steam locos like 46235 to help keep the country running as they can burn indigenous coal on which the Country is built.

Oh, I forgot, we've closed all the mines. Forget that idea and leave 46235 where it is.

 

Tom,

Am I being stupid here? I'm aware of 6000, 6023 and 6024 but what's the fourth one?

 

I did say "from memory" - I thought there were four Kings, but maybe not. I probably got confused with a Hall or something

Nonetheless, the argument still stands: I can't see why we will ever have "dire need" of an operational City of Birmingham when there are 25 or so other class 8s that could be restored to operational condition.

Tom

 

Well, all GWR 4-6-0s look the same!

 

Strictly speaking, that's not true - Scotsman is 7P6F. So 6 A4s plus Blue Peter and Tornado makes 7, and Prince of Wales makes 8.

 

Flushed from the success of the mogul, it's not inconceivable that the WSR is welding together a couple of leftover bits of brass to get a super-Castle out there…

Simon

 

I think loco grade lard is called tallow.

 

Though their track record down there of grafting two disparate bits into one successful whole is not great ...

Tom

 

Y'see, I wasn't going to go there…

Simon

 

It's true that paint will eventually deteriorate, however with an effective environmental monitoring regime it should be possible to keep her looking presentable for hundreds of years.

Sorry...I have to keep reminding myself that I'm not at work...!

 

I take it maths isn't your best subject?

 

Bauxite, in the NRM, probably hasn't been painted since acquisition. Still looks good to me.
There is sometimes a tendency to believe everything preserved should be restored to an 'exhibition' finish. I do not hold to this view.

 

Apart from the patches on the boiler cladding that have clearly been painted in recent time by what looks like a dulux colour match sample brush!!! Apart from that yes it hasn't been touched since BR days.

 

Rape seed oil seems to work rather well. And Kylcap fitted A3s were considered to be equivalent to a class 8, so S. A. C. is not far off the mark, as 2 of the compliment are most unlikely to ever return to action.

Last week Flying Scotsman was recorded slipping when accelerating away from Peterborough. So we loop back to the adhesion question once more. The late George Gordon considered the LNE Pacifics to be, on balance, a better machine for the S & C than an LM machine. So, back to 46235. In the light of the need for locomotives that keep their feet and offer a level of acceleration that does not prove to be a major hurdle whilst out on the mainline, does any case exist for the restoration of the said locomotive to working order? Once 2007 appears, given the need for locomotives to be capable of restarting the load allocated to them regardless of where they might happen to be checked to a standstill, the requirement to accelerate rapidly to fit in with the modern network, why would a tour operator choose a Pacific over a 2-8-2?

The Princess Coronation has a higher tractive effort than an A3, or an A4, or an A1, or a MN. But it has little more adhesive weight. Then you look at Barkhausen's work on turning moments. Four cylinder compounds are smoother than simples and offer superior acceleration. Suspension of belief? Wait until E41 reappears.

In a price sensitive market the ability to handle a heavier paying load is invaluable. On the "water level" routes we might well get away with Pacifics for a while but there is no escaping the tractive effort/adhesion/acceleration issue.

 

No

My apologies Jamie - what a brain dead post that was!

 

I believe 46235 is best left where she is based on my understanding that the nation did not save her to satisfy existing enthusiasts like me, but to educate future generations.

The Think Tank museum is very popular with school visits and is therefore seen by many children who might be unlikely to see a locomotive of its statue anywhere else if their parents/guardians do not have the interest to take them to the SVR or York etc. Yes, I would rather schools took them to a heritage railway to see a locomotive in working order but I understand that is not always feasible with the crowded modern curriculum that necessitates multi-aspect visits covering more than one subject area and where Beamish, Iron Bridge Gorge, Science Museum, Think Tank and Manchester MOSI fits in well.

When it comes to showing someone a steam locomotive for the first time, I would rather they saw one of the a giants of steam rather than swapping it for, say, a smaller locomotive. I am certainly not suggesting the 46235 is more historically significant than say an industrial saddle tank, but it may leave a greater impression especially if it carries the name of their main regional city.

Gareth