SVR Pacific Power 22nd-25th September 2016

Maybe but the daily cost of FS is eye watering & in a completely different league to that for "normal" locos. It even makes Tornado look half reasonable & that one is still far more expensive per day than most others.

 

So FC and the Replica are coming for free are they?

 

I don't have the daily fee for FS available which is why I only referred to the gross income in my post, however I would point out that nothing comes for free.

If we're comparing the Pacific power event with an average ASG, I'd be surprised if there is a very large difference in total steaming/transport fees.

Pacific power = Two lots of High fees for 60103 and 60163 over 5 days, movements over NR, steaming fees for 4 resident locos.

ASG = average of 4 visiting locos, majority likely not mainline registered. So 4 lots of steaming fees there for 4 days. Road movement costs, steaming fees for 8 or 9 resident locos.

You're still going to need record breaking numbers attending an ASG to get close to the likely profit margins of the scotsman event. Purely in terms of economics, before the considerations of overcrowding and safety come into it, the decision the SVR have made makes sense.

 

Absolutely!!

 

What makes you think SVR will be charging £38 as NYMR are?
On NYMR it is for a round trip Grosmont-Pickering and back 36 miles.
On SVR its a one way trip of 16 miles. Or are they planning to charge enhanced fares to ride on Tornado, which has run everywhere at normal prices?

 

It's a combined trip of FS and Tornado: One of them takes the train to Bridgnorth, the other back to Kidderminster.
So maybe less than the Moors but we shall have to wait for the prices to be announced.

 

I can't say what the SVR will actually charge, so using the only available comparable market price available for a FS heritage line trip seems a reasonable reference point. Okay with you?

I take your point about 16 miles of scotsman haulage but, as Kieran has pointed out, the ticket is for a 32 mile trip with both FS and tornado. Seems to me that is quite a saleable package to your average punter.

 

A NBI this afternoon, posted on FB and the SVR forum so I'll post it here as well.

 

For obvious reasons, I have to be careful what I say, but you make a good point. Rest assured, no matter what 2017, or for that matter November 2016 throws at us, the volunteers, both on and off duty will be throwing everything they have at making things memorable for people.

 

Absolutely agree. I went to last year's ASG and like you say, whilst it was still an excellent event to me it somehow lacked that bit of "specialness" compared to previous offerings. I think it was because the timetable was less intensive than it had been in previous years.

I just hope the SVR realise that, thanks to this years debacle, there will be a lot of eyes watching for how 2017s ASG shapes up. It will have to be pretty damn good to make up for the disappointment and anger that people are feeling at the moment......

 

I don't thing they are under any pressure for next year as long as both event turn a good profit which is the main reason for having the event in the first place.
Maybe night running is not an issue with the vast majority who attend the event and does put a vast strain on the operating department finding signalmen guards and other to cover these.

 

Here's my penny's worth:
Flying Scotsman for some enthusiasts is quite a big deal, however there's plently for whom it isn't. Whilst loco lineups are a part of it, most enthusiasts look forward to things of operational interest (overnight running, locals, semi-fasts, doubleheading, etc) to make Galas special over what may be observed on a normal operating day.
Do non-enthusiasts particulary care about this? Maybe, but I reckon a lot less than enthusiasts. Flying Scotsman's celebrity nature means you will get a lot of non-enthusiasts coming. I'm sure the media reaction has highen the public's reaction this time around. So what does the SVR do? Run it as normal and see every train behind FS rammed? Or try to introduce control? As soon as the latter occurs, the normal gala format is heavily compromised.
The real shame is that the SVR couldn't have had it some other time in the year, but alas not (If the only reason that it can make another time was booked mainline duties, then I wonder how the current situation might affect it)
As for next year, well unless the Valley is getting FS again (no, please no), I would imagine the Gala would go back to normal. Why? Because the emphasise will be back on the enthusiasts as normal folk probably won't be that interested in it.

 

Right, I've been following this thread......

I can understand the disgruntlement being expressed by those wanting a 'traditional' ASG...... BUT the SVR has been dealt the hand it has..... and the powers that be are trying to mitigate circumstances - given what I witnessed on 60103's run from The Cross the other week & the experience of the ELR, I can't blame them for trying to manage the situation & I can see every vantage point being packed to the detriment of the locals in terms of traffic chaos........ I wonder what plans the NYMR have in place for mitigating the perceived chaos?........

I for one will be staying well away from both events!

That said, if the MHR is drawn out of the hat anytime soon, I dread to think what those of us who have the right to go lineside will have to try & police & the verbal abuse we will no doubt have to put up with trust me if folks do not obey an order to get off the line where they shouldn't be, then I for one have no problem with phoning a signalbox & everything grinds to a halt, followed by the BTP - tough!

Lest we forget, Scotsman is the 'peoples' engine, and has been for decades & now perpetuated by the NRM & long may it continue, after all the best part of £10M is a lot to recoup.......

 

OK well after all this.... what happens when FS fails and it can't make the event or fails during the event like the Duchess did a couple of years back. All your eggs in one basket springs to mind!

Leave running special charter trains to the mainline and do what you do best as a persevered line.

The simple fact is yes the SVR have made the right decision but was there realistically any other decision that could be made?

I will say this, if a business ran this way they wouldn't be in business for very long. Being painted into a corner like this stinks of not thinking the whole thing through properly before making agreements and various announcements. To be honest it sounds like no one really knew what they were doing or trying to achieve and are now trying to make the best of an impossible situation.

 

Since when has running a Heritage Railway not been a business? If any Heritage R ailway does not run on average at a surplus it wont be in business very long . The realities of profit and loss apply as they do at any leisure attraction e.g. Black Country Living Museum or even Alton Towers. The only difference to what might be called mainstream business is the contribution from volunteers. .

 

A heritage railway does not operate on revenues earned from just delivering its service or selling its goods. It receives contributions in many ways from the collection pots to lottery grants etc etc. If these railways operated on the earnings of ticket sales alone we'd quickly find out why Beeching closed them in the first place.

Anyway I think its pretty clear the point I was making.

 

The SVR management painted themselves into a corner of thier own making.

Now maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but the last time Scotsman was in ticket I dont remember the clamour and hype surrounding her to have been on the levels we are seeing now, why is that? Is it because of the money spent or are we now in an age where almost everything is iconic, I just dont know. yes FS is a famous locomotive but surely not to the mass hysteria levels we are currently witnessing. Im puzzled.

 

Yes, the hype seems excessive and unfortunately is the reason why FS can't appear at a normal ASG at the moment unless you want vast overcrowding and chaotic running.

 

But what about people who want to see / ride behind Flying Scotsman but either don't know how to get on a mainline train, don't have the time or can't afford it? To suggest it should become a "mainline only" engine as you appear to be doing (please correct me if I'm wrong) means you cut an enormous market out of the picture before you even start. I know for some enthusiasts the mainline is the only thing they really care about, but for many (most) others the only time they get to see and experience these engines, or travel behind them, is at their local preserved railway.

 

I'm suggesting that if the only way you can accommodate having such an engine is to run special ticket only trains at a premium rate then yes maybe the mainline is the only place for it. I would class my self as being one of those in the latter part of your post and not someone that's all that interested in the mainline.