Saving 3 Cig 1498

£20,000 is the lowest the owner would take. £4,000 + 20% vat is the moving costs, if the bid was ever unsuccessful the money would either be returned to everyone or with each persons money we would ask if they would be willing for it to be donated to another EMU group. if too much is raised the rest would go towards restoration of the unit.

 

3CIG/4CIG is a 3 or 4 car Electric Multiply Unit. People should donate towards saving this once lovely machine. wheres Shap?

 

Really? So you've answered all the points below then? Funny I haven't seen your replies....

Here's a checklist for you:

1. The plans still exist for the intended loco, and can be obtained easily at minimal/no cost
2. You've established a committee with a proper constitution and modus operandi
3. The experience of each committee member is known, and is appropriate to the project
4. There is the support of a well known preservation name or the backing of an established railway
5. You've agreed a base to work from, that has appropriate workshop facilities
6. The legal structure has been established and is freely available for would-be donors to check
7. You have a well presented website ready to go and a method for online/offline donations with the appropriate admin backup
8. You've done market research to establish if enthusiasts would want to contribute to this loco project and if so are there enough contributors who would be paying in enough to make it viable?
9. Would railways would want to hire your loco, and if so how much they would pay - is that enough to cover maintenance/overhauls?

Once you've put a tick beside each of the points above, then, and only then should you launch the project, make the website live, and reveal all the above information to the general public.

As it stands I think the Claud/J39/L1 projects have all picked a loco, launched a project and are now trying to fill in the blanks as they go along. If they had followed the established routes of the Grange/82045/Patriot projects I believe they would have more support and would have made more progress.



Keith

 

Bl**dy fast if you could only find a way to connect the conductor shoe to the overhead ...

Tom

 

we are currently working through all of these points number 2 is half done already and we know the answer to number 9

 

I think you've completely missed the sentence after point 9.
Bearing in mind you already committed yourself to these points back with one of your other projects, your statement that "we are currently working through all of these points..." seems completely untrue....


Keith

 

Which bit of 9 - what they'd pay, or whether it would be enough? If it's enough, how do you know that if you haven't answered 2-8?

 

I don't usually look at this thread but can someone enlighten me on what is lovely about what is essentially three Mk1 profile self shunting coaches? I assume where's Shap was said tongue in cheek.

 

Down boy!

 

what they would pay and would railways hire her.

 

Is your answer based on actual evidence/conversations with railways? How often do you think a railway would hire it? Transport would be horrendously expensive for the whole unit, so you're looking at a local hire where the unit is based. What other rolling stock does this railway have, which they could use instead and which might be cheaper or even free? Lots more questions...

 

Thanks - I'd missed his late edit. My step ladders are at the ready

 

I wonder if @stuartreeder could tell us whether he has spoken to any railway which has actually operated an EMU as loco-hauled stock? He mentioned up-thread that it could be used with a diesel "to operate lights and heating". Does he know whether the electrical connections on this unit are compatible with locos and if so, which ones?

 

When we had the 4-BIG running at the GCR, we couldn't use the lights or the heating. I was told that this was because these units return the power to the rail to complete the necessary circuit, whilst ordinary coaching stock returns the power to the locomotive which is providing the supply. This meant that had we turned the power on, we would likely have fried the track circuits. I'm no expert and I could have been told wrong, but surely that is something to consider? I know we were looking at fitting a second set of ETH jumpers to the 4-BIG to allow the heating and lighting to be used...but that's not an easy task.

Tom

 

first of all - yea I have spoke to someone at a railway
2. yes I think there is a railway that would hire it.
3.the price I got was for hiring as the railway I was told would pay for transport to there line.
4. One of the possible railways has no stock at present.

Swanage used a class 33/1 I think it was on her , class 73 would be able to . If not a genny coach could be attached for lighting and heating.
there is ways around it.

 

Yes, this has been our experience with a pair of class 302s. We have asked senior engineers from Ilford Car Shops whether there is any way over the problem and the general opinion is- not without considerable additional work and expense. Lighting may be a possibility, but heating would require a substantial generator and they don't come cheap. Class 73s and some 33s may be suitable, but how many railways have them available?

In order to find a home for these vehicles, I suggest that you will need somewhere where the vehicles have some particular historical significance, that has available an operational Cl 73 or suitable 33 and has a very pressing need for passenger rolling stock. I think that the first two points will narrow the field considerably and on the third, it would undoubtedly be cheaper to hire/buy Mk Is or 2s. They are still available and even if requiring some restoration, would still be cheaper, or at least no more expensive, than the Cig. In addition, the railway would then have stock with general availability and without the significant restrictions associated with an EMU- air brake only, coupling issues and the afore-mentioned electrical complications.

The current owner, who has substantial financial and engineering backing, can't make a case for using them and that alone should sow doubts about the viability of this project. I wouldn't want to spoil any opportunity for him to get rid of what has become a nuisance to him, but I doubt that I am, since this project is very unlikely to go anywhere.

Lastly, as mentioned at the beginning, we have a couple of Cl 302 EMU vehicles. We bought them because they have a strong historical connection to our area, they can be operated as driving trailers in push-pull mode, we have several air-braked locos and they were very cheap to obtain- £3k to buy and transport 15 years ago. However, they only get used at diesel galas! Does that tell you something?

 

So a generator coach is needed as well? It's all starting to look a bit complicated just to run three passenger carriages. Realistically, which railway is so in need of the extra capacity that they would go to the complication of hiring it when three mark 1s would be easier, cheaper and place fewer demands on suitable motive power?

Also, you are aware that the Network South East Railway Society already have an operational CIG, which rather reduces the preservation need to have another running? They are well enough regarded to have the ex-GM of NSE as honorary president, and are now being given the opportunity to move on to assisting the NRM with the 2HAP. Perhaps you should join them instead? They are even on Facebook!

Tom

 

to answer the first point both would be possible if we did like they have on 1399 convert it to an AC system for the heating and lighting they paid £450 I think it was.

we have approached a few railway and i one is interested in the cig for rolling stock.



the current owner has it on a line that has (if I'm right in saying ) no push pull diesels and they want to restore their mk1's first hence the sale of the cig.

it tells me I need to find a railway that has little or no coaching stock ( for example shillingstone, midsomer Norton, that Weymouth quay group if the get the go ahead )

 

Both of those railways don't need a 3-cig at the moment and they both don't have a suitable locomotive to run an electric set. I spoke to a person from the Helston Railway last year (similar to the railways above) and they said they prefer a brake van being pulled by a locomotive rather than a coach, as it it's easier to operate and they don't have the need to operate a carriage at the moment. The Weymouth quay idea that's another matter for another thread.

 

Wasn't that the dog on Blue Peter?

Why would you want to run rail tours that run over a dog?

Robin