Non-working replicas?

If a locomotive is capable of being brought to life, it has no business in a museum unless it is awaiting funds for restoration.

 

I don't accept that. Some locomotives have that potential but should remain static exhibits. In fact, you could argue that every locomotive preserved has the potential of being brought back to life, it's just a question of funds, time and effort.

Lode Star for example has that potential to be brought back to life. Should it? How far do you take that logic? The original* Rocket in the science museum?

No, I'm afraid I don't buy the logic. Case by case basis, and it is clear some locomotives should remain static exhibits.

*debated

 

You've contradicted yourself there....


Keith

 

It is up to the owners what they do with their property, if you are a museum there are many good reasons not to have engines running. If every engine was running there would not be the work for them all so no money to keep them all running. Many engines are better of kept in storageo f some type in the dry, particularly if they area also available for the public to see.

 

If all you care about is operational locomotives why not just build new ones? There is no need to ruin a perfectly good museum.

 

On the basis of that argument you should empty the NRM and replace them with mock ups? Would people visit the NRM or any other museum if the exhibits were fakes? I wouldn't. Everything that once ran could be made to run again if you threw enough cash and manpower at it but for most museums both are in short supply so whilst the aspiration might be to get everything to run one day, the reality is that undercover in a museum is the best place for them. And as the operation loco's get older and more expensive to overhaul space within museums will be at a premium to save what we have without cluttering them with pantomime horses.

 

Of course they would! In the same way I would go to Madam Tussaud's and think I'd seen the Beatles.

 

I think the definition of a museum should be investigated - "repository of motive power" isn't there I recall, but operating a locomotive is of course the best form of interpretation. As the distance grows between working steam and heritage operations, the need for good interpretation of whatever form increases.

If replicas will suffice for m'learned friend, then where does emptying museums end...?

 

If we are going to build replicas, we might at least aim at the bigger gaps in preservation. Which is not GWR branch locos or Class 8 locos...! The gaps are in the 19th century, and the pre-WW1 top link (see my Pre-Grouping thread of a few weeks back).

 

Given a choice between static replicas in museums and operational originals; or operational replicas with museums full of original locos with a tangible connection to their time in history, I'd choose the latter...

Tom

 

I think that's arguably true, but under certain very strict conditions:

1. If it's not already doing an important job where it is. For example, if Tiverton Museum only wants a steam engine then you could swap 1442 for a knackered Austerity tank, no problem, but if it wants to tell the story of Tiverton's railway then nothing but a 14XX will do.

2. If there isn't a dedicated pot of money available for its restoration which would not otherwise be spent on a heritage railway. So if somebody were to approach the National Trust and say "I want to pay to restore 'Fire Queen' and if you don't take my money I'll give it to the Cats' Protection League" then fair enough, but if the Bluebell had a choice between overhauling the Adams Radial and overhauling somebody else's similarly tired engine which is already cosmetically restored, under cover, and on public view then that would be a waste of money.

3. If overhauling it would necessitate the replacement of a great deal of original material and if other working examples already exist. For example, of the nine Terriers in the UK eight will sooner or later contain next to no original material, so why not leave 'Boxhill' as she is?

4. If there's no work for it. I would love to see 'Aerolite' in steam because she's beautiful, but I can't think of a single railway which would have any use for her.

5. If other examples exist which are either unrestored or awaiting overhaul. I'd sooner see what's left of the Binbrook Crab given a second chance than overhaul 2700, which while intact is in such poor condition that it probably wouldn't cost much less to fix.

 

I'm afraid with an engine the age of Boxhill there is probably very little of the original left now.

 

I absolutely agree. There are many GWR locos of the Dean and Armstrong era I'd like to see recreated, it's a fascinating and neglected area of study. Hopefully when all the 50s and 60s trainspotters have died away we can get away from the paint everything in BR livery mentality and look at serious gaps in an otherwise superb selection of preserved locos

 

I wouldn't be so certain, without a detailed survey. When Fenchurch was restored last in the late 1990s, the evidence showed that the frames, wheels, upper part of the cab, and the water tanks were all original from the 1870s, despite about 120 years of service up to then; and significant other parts dated from the 1913 rebuild. There's no reason to suppose that Boxhill would be markedly less original than Fenchurch, given that it has spent longer out of traffic.

Tom

 

Therefore it isn't true. Very well argued, apart from your first sentence.

 

Some well reasoned posts in this thread.
Just a suggestion; there are some locos that officially are preserved, but will probably never work again.
If that is accepted then by using fibre glass and other modern materials, those gaping holes in firebox and smokebox could be "sealed" and painted. Then the loco would remain preserved, but by appearing to be complete, would not be so sorry looking and would reduce the eyesores we see on some lines.

 

Ah, you caught me. It's a fair cop.

 

Certainly submit that until all the eyesores have been dealt with, one way or another, it's not sensible to be thinking about those in museums with a reasonably secure future.

Suggest that there are a good many locomotives and other stock out there that are not being preserved in any meaningful sense. If it's deteriorating how can it be said to be preserved?

 

How about this one that's been left on a roundabout in Haywards Heath?


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