7027 Thornbury Castle

It's all very well saying that, but which individual / group / railway do you have in mind?

It's a common refrain that comes up periodically about various unrestored locos - "If X won't restore it, why don't they offer it to someone else who will?" Almost invariably, such calls fail to specify who exactly has the capacity, resources and desire to do so. In the case of a Castle specifically, it seems to me that the most obvious candidates (a) already have a Castle, so having another one doesn't plug a gap and (b) are already expending considerable resources just to keep what they have turning over, without adding another scrapyard loco.

Tom

 

Since the loco was originally saved as a source of spares, would that be such a terrible thing?

 

A fair point, but haven't things moved on in preservation since the days of acquiring scrap locos for strategic spares? Made sense at the time when even a retube was seen as a major job and a requirement for new tyres would see a loco passed over for something else, but now any new parts can be made from scratch, unthinkable in the early days. I agree with Kylchap's comments on the previous page, we have what we have, which whilst not ideal, is better than what we might have had were it not for an accident of history (Barry). Very careful consideration should be given before any more locos are 'dismantled for parts' in my view, although I do recognise the difficulties in fundraising for non-unique locomotives. When it's gone, it's gone!

 

In all the talk about restoring 7027 in a modified form how about applying the performance improvements of the final variants rather than detuning for esoteric reasons?

 

Nevertheless there seem to be a number of ex-Barry locos that nobody seems to want, or at least nobody able to raise enough money to restore them. I don't think PW wants to scrap at the moment and I would hope most of the removed parts have been carefully stored in the hope of restoration some day. But in some cases a managed process of breaking for spares might be a better fate than, for example, the Crab at Binbrook of which some parts, allegedly, still exist.

 

Its not a question of nobody wanting the remaining unrestored ex Barry locos - more a case of it takes a considerable time for the pres movement to assimilate 200+ locos. Recently several have changed hands and the signs for those are far more promising now. No doubt that will continue in the future. Some have already mentally written these locos off but sweeping generalisations about their condition are not useful - each has to be looked at on its merits.

Ironically some of the as yet unrestored locos will in the long term be of far more use for everyday heritage line services than the plethora of express locos which received first attention from the fund raisers. Use on NR will be limited, whilst heritage line use looks set to continue on a daily basis well into the future.

 

Absolutely. Look at 4110. Left Barry in 1979 and unrestored since then. The WSR launched its restoration appeal yesterday.

http://westsomersetrailway.vticket.co.uk/article.php/1220/4110-appeal

 

Exactly, PW doesn't seem to be in any great rush to sell so I don't see any threat to her apart from on-going decay, plus she has been moved to a new site where she can be kept an eye on, not some deserted industrial estate. Who knows what the future holds for her but scrapping seems unlikely - not sure why there seems to be such a clamour to be rid of her or to convert to a Star, I believe Tyseley looked at that previously, it would be interesting to hear why that never came to fruition?

There are plenty more locomotives with considerably less secure futures out there (in fact I think there is a thread on here somewhere)?

BTW this thread seems to keep crashing Chrome on my PC (no others on here do?)

 

Restoration to working order, as and when resources become available, is certainly preferable to scrapping. But no-one is suggesting scrapping, and restoration needn't mean restoring the complete loco as Thornbury Castle (which would anyway need some new parts). The boiler could be restored for use as a spare for other Castles or on 47o9. The rest could form the basis of something else; a Star or something that never existed such as the Pacific tank in post #138. While we're about it, how about re-introducing "scissors" valve gear, which should slightly simplify maintenance?

 

You're using the wrong browser - GWR threads run best on Copper

Tom (hat, coat, tin of brasso ...)

 

I'd like to see it end up as the flagship engine of either the WSR or GWSR, but they both have higher priorities for the moment.

 

I agree with your statement about it taking time but it's also a matter of cost. If Mr Waterman wants an eye watering price for 7027 then it is unlikely to be sold. That doesn't mean no one wants it.
It's the same with other locos such as 34073 - too high a price and no one can afford to buy it and then restore it. The Turkish 8F is also claimed to have not been wanted, however it was never advertised anywhere and who knows if the price was realistic. It's simply not fair to say that these locos are not wanted. Make the price fair and advertise it and the buyers will come.


Keith

 

PW is President of the GWSR.

 

I find it very disappointing that high prices are asked for locos like 7027 and 34073 when they only cost a few thousand to buy from Barry, People know that and are reluctant to pay huge mark-ups

 

@Jamessquared surely you guys at the Bluebell could do with a nice copper capped pal to keep 9017 company ;-)

Chris

 

Deleted, Internet connection went strange and somehow double blank posted.

 

You have to add inflation to that few thousand in the first place, (for instance £5k in 1975 is roughly £35k now) plus in the case of 7027 she has changed hands at least twice? since she left Barry?

She is worth whatever the market will pay for her, anyone asking silly money will never sell and thus one must question whether they actually want to sell? The issue often arises when such assets are owned within Companies or Trusts that the asset is given a ridiculous Book Value to balance the accounts which makes sale at a lower price very difficult as the accounts say the asset has a certain arbitrary value, I have experienced this a lot with historic buildings which have been given an inflated value to balance accounts which means that in the short term they are essentially unable to be sold without showing a perceived enormous loss. - I am sure some of our resident accountants will be able to explain better than I can!

 

That sounds quite like 'breaking for spares' to me

 

Hopefully prices of unrestored locos are falling since, as others have said, a number of long stored locos are now being restored.

 

If you then add on what its cost to store them since then you get quite another number.