1014 County of Glamorgan

I'm unaware of any official announcement that the boiler will definitely operate at 225lbs psi. The 1014 website says that the 8F firebox has been "redesigned". I wonder what, if any, changes have been made? I seem to remember it being said earlier (post 98) that the pitch of the stays could not be altered. However, pure speculation here, maybe they've used a different, possibly stronger, metal for the stays?

Also, it's worth remembering that the redraughted double-chimney Counties operated at 250lbs psi, so 1014 wouldn't need to be pressed as high as 280 lbs.

Another possibility is that the cylinder liners could be bored out slightly, in order to increase the tractive effort, if 225 lps psi is used.

I am far from being an expert, but I have a feeling that the boiler could be pressed to 250lbs.

It is surprising that no announcement has been made regarding the working pressure, maybe the final decision hasn't been made?

 

Surely a big wheeled Hall is a Saint, and they're already building one of them....

 

Obviously not !

 

Speaking of 2999, has there been any progress on it since the January update?

 

I wouldn't normally refer to 'Steam Beano' for reliable information but the article on 1014 in the current issue does state that the working pressure will be 225psi. Whilst the diameter and material used for the side stays is taken into account, in this case the limiting factor is the "stay pitch" i.e. the area of unsupported plate between the stays and this cannot be changed. As I have posted previously I believe the decision to use the 8F firebox assembly will prove to be 'false economy' in the long run but it's their engine and their money.
Ray.

 

You bring to mind that interview with Pete Waterman in Steam Railway about ten years ago, in which he insisted that 2999 "is not a Saint - it's a Hall with big wheels on". Now I always thought that, where the Saint was concerned, that criticism was a little unfair (and I must say that I think the Saint is a very worthwhile project - indeed I even made a small donation to it a few years ago).

But when one considers the County project, I must say that I'm starting to see Mr. Waterman's point. With all the modifications that are being made, I don't think the new 1014 can truly be called a County - more like a "modified Modified Hall".

But as had been said, if that's good enough for the people who are putting up the money, then that's fine. If it had been my money, I would have much rather spent it on a County 4-4-0 or, better still, a 4-4-2T...but that's just me!

 

the Saint and the County fill the gaps in the GWR 4-6-0 story and I look forward to seeing them, all the more so if the Star and Grange could be borrowed by Didcot for a period.

For future replicas can someone please look at locos from the first 60 years of GWR history....

 

'Aberdare' , outside-framed pannier ?

Bob.

 

Having read through this, I can only say that having an incorrect boiler, and pressure, and possibly incorrect rods, means this is not really a County then is it?

I do not want to be disrespectful to the people who are working on this or who have donated funds, but for the folk that already criticise GWR locos as being very similar class to class then this is not really going to help.

 

there are so many to chose... either of them, a 4-4-0 a Single a 2-4-0. There's a whole world of 19th Century GWR locos. To balance the fantastic collection existing, some of these are needed. 3065 would be a good start, the Single which ran the other half of Truro's record run

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I hadn't read this months issue. 1014 won't be the first 250 lbs loco to run at 225 lbs. 6000 King George V ran at 225lbs, yet I don't think it was thought of as a "detuned" King. 1014 will probably perform very well, they just might have to open the regulator a little wider than if it was pressed to 250lbs.

 

Good evening everyone, the website for the County used to be updated every two months, usually almost to the weekend. However, it hasn't been updated now since January the 8th. Does anyone know what the latest state-of-play is with the loco?.

Thank you.

 

Well, last I remember, the firebox was nearly finished and the frames are fully wheeled.

 

While I'm actually quite keen to see a County myself, I must concede that I do agree you in this regard. I personally find it rather unfortunate that, for the supposed definitive organisation for representing the GWR at it's best and most authentic, this new County is sounding neither all that authentic or as good as the originals... The Saint by comparison however does seem to be a great recreation of it's design for all intents and purposes.

One wonders if the folks at GWS just don't like Hawksworth's work all that much... Apart from the Modified Halls that is, such grand engines.

 

If they didn't then surely they wouldn't go to all the work and expense of trying to recreate, as closely as they sensibly can, one of his engines?

 

Well if my theory was correct (which I'm saying it is by the way), then I'd suspect that is simply due to a good number of people wanting to see it happen, even if there possibly is a reluctance to do so.

The point I'm trying to make really though, is why does the County project seem to be doing half measures in recreating this class, when the Saint project by constrast is clearly not? They've gone all in with it, even going so far as to allow it to run as a 4-4-0, everything about it is virtually correct to how the Saints were. By contrast the County has an underpowered boiler, and possibly as mention not even the right rods. They say the 8F boiler isn't good enough to be pushed to 250psi, but then why not rebuild it to do so, or heavens forbid build a new one? I know that would have been more expensive and time consuming sure, but would it really have been that much more then what they've spent on the 8F boiler?

Ceratainly they can't say their boiler new build shy, for it's been made pretty clear that's what their doing with the 4700 Night Owl project.

 

Thinking more about the 225psi boiler, I would think that the 25psi lack of pressure would make hardly any difference to the loco's performance. Surely if the 225psi new County is driven with a wider regulator opening or/and higher percentage cut off, it would match the normal performance of the 250psi originals? Only if being driven "flat out" should a any deficiency in power be detectable. I seem to remember reading that the cylinders may be slightly "bored out" to compensate for the lower boiler pressure.

 

Ah I see, well in which case that could change a lot of peoples' issue with the boiler if true, as I am familiar with the method of modifying the cynlinders' diameter in order to compensate for a lower boiler pressure. It's the same sort of method the folks building the new P2 have adopted I beileve, so if it works for the P2, it should work for the County.

Either way, at the end of the day, I certainly don't want to talk trash against all the work that has gone into building this new County, as it has taken a lot of skill and thought to modify it's donor engine into the form that it now is. By all accounts, they deserve nothing but praise for all they've accomplished.

 

The P2 is of course going in the opposite direction - pressure up, cylinders down. In pure performance terms that is preferable, even if the nominal tractive effort is identical, since it's a relative enlargement of the steam chest and valves.

 

Since the whole shebang is being redesigned they are no doubt 'doing as see fit' on these dimensions, on my attenpts at TE Calcs P2 would need 19.5, not 19.75 inch cylinders